Elodea, I like where you're coming from. However, I'm making the assumption that units with greater ranges will be balanced so that is a disadvantage in some way (probably by speed) The result: you can't just infinitely kite. There are many other ways to balance the game, obviously. The suggestion of high damage per shot, low rate of fire, as a balance metric, would be while considering everything else. What you seem to be missing is rather than being purely a suggestion of balance, this is a suggestion of role differentiation to achieve balance.
What if you don't need to kite? Grenadier inferno is already crazy imba right now. I'm just saying, be careful of trying to differentiate via high alpha
Hmm, a few things being tossed around here. The strange thing is, bots, the "fastest units" don't have a single high speed scout like the vehicles do. So, what if Dox's remain in there current state, but go super quickly (like a peewee from TA)
Peewees weren't "super" fast in TA; they just barely outpaced the standard battletank in the form of the Stumpy (by 0.1 max velocity). Both the Flash and the Jeffy, not to mention the flea, all moved faster than the Peewee... and that's just counting the basic, non flying, non hovering ground units for ARM.
That is how I feel about gil-e. They might be fine, if they could only shoot when standing still, and were slower moving. That way, they can still move forward and fire and move forward and fire, but must either take losses if units move in, or retreat and stop firing, and if the army continues to chase either indefinitely move back to their base or get chased down eventually. The best part would be, they can't keep walking away from the enemy army, and continue to shoot and whittle down thousands of metal worth of units.
Don't forget elodea, you can't just think of it as X unit vs Y unit, but also the many different potential compositions as well. Sure a high alpha unit that is inaccurate I steely or as a by product of its firing arc isn't a great unit on its own, but that's the entire point! You don't want to end up just building an entire army around a single unit. Think about the classic movie Commando squad, you don't generally get multiple people all good at the same things, you get the sniper guy, the demolitions guy, the sneaky guy ect ect. A high arc, high alpha and slightly inaccurate grenadier is pretty terrible against most/all units, but you know what it is good against? Buildings, especially in PA where buildings are pretty big to begin with! You rarely build an army of JUST grenadiers unless it's part of a two prong attack where a more "standard" army attacks first to draw the attention of the enemy units and sending the grenadiers in separately to rip into a base. Obviously we can just focus on a single aspect of a unit but you think hats what were doing when it's not really, yes we are emphasizing specific aspects to better conform the unit to what we want it to do but we aren't JUST changing that aspect, other all we would be doing is just raising the damage on a unit. Mike
right now grens are alot like T2 power and solar arrays, theres no reason to go with one as the other is better in every way except for remote special circumstances, i would just make grens 10 dps and bots 20 dps because i thought grens would be support for tanks and infernoes, turns out they werent
I think that dox speed could be increased and grenadiers should had ROF and projectiles speed reduced, it made it good support unit but weak against moving targets. If projectiles of grenadiers cannot be doged by bots they should had smaller dps or price increase
Mike, you keep not understanding any of my posts for some reason. I was already two steps ahead of you. Not ever did i say anything about building one unit armies or considering one variable only. Neither did i say anything like that about others. In fact everything I have said has been assuming entirely the opposite. To sum it very simply once again, high alpha grenadiers are volatile to the game design because of the different unavoidable circumstances that they bring to the table. It is very hard to balance around high alpha damage as i've already explained why. There are better attributes to have as a corner-stone. I also already listed unit composition examples like inferno + grenadier as problematic. If you need further detailed explanation about why high alpha damage is a bad attribute to balance for, I'm happy to re-iterate what i've written in this thread to you in a PM.
Okay a lot of problems with quite a few people's suggestions, I think, is that people basically make the Grenadier "tank 2.0". Grenadiers should keep their speed. My suggestion would be to keep their speed or maybe lower it just by one, keep their health, slow their projectiles velocity and maybe either give them a higher arc or lower the race of the dox. Dox should maybe even get a slight speed buff, and a faster rate of fire than the Grenadier. Also, a slight buff to projectile speed as atm, and for a while, tanks beat dox.
Grens need a higher arc and lower speed than doxes so that they have trouble hitting moving targets and are slow enough to be kitable. A health nerf would be nice too. Dox need a slight range buff and a damage buff. Ants need a damage nerf, but they can keep their hp. IMO: Bots: Excellent dps per metal but paper armor. Fast. Tanks: Excellent HP per metal but DPS is about the same as a bot, despite costing more. Slow with a small amount more range.
