Grenadiers are OP. I'd recommend fixing them before pushing this build out unless you want building nothing but grenadiers to be the meta.
Honestly, I think grenadiers aren't that OP. At least not when you compare them to T1 tanks. Dox are completely useless in comparison, turrets are under-powered in comparison, but tanks + grenadier + inferno + combat fabber are all pretty much in the same tier. Grenadier's arc gives it a significant edge when there are a lot of obstructions though, so maybe it is a tad more powerful than the others.
I get this all the time, even when the fabbers are close to the building site, also on every building - not only orbital launcher.
Haven't they gone and reconda nd said unit balance just isn't a focus right now? So whats the point of worrying about something thats intentionally not going to be fixed (or really focused on).
Eventually the AI will need more tweaking as well. Occasionally they will send their commander to a planet that I fully control, ending the game quickly. They are also not aggressive with their anti nukes. Very easy to nuke the AI.
I... dont beliieevvveeee that's what they said. And intentionally not fixed is borderline provocative, it isn't like they will intentionally leave any part of the game in a broken state. Especially... what, you are talking about grenadier? Those are like brand new, how can you say they are just going to toss it out there with some numbers and not care about it? They used to be UP, now they are OP, they do this with EVERY addition to the game, they test it high and low and see which one they like it closer to. If you want to help simply share your opinion that it be higher or lower. Back when they were lower you would build dox no matter what (but dox weren't in so grenadiers would be tested better), now that they are higher there is no reason to build dox over grenadier. I think somewhere in the middle would definitely be nice, where they can annihilate buildings in numbers of 6 but can't annihilate armies with carpets of splash damage and micro.
Yes Scathis did say that. The problems with pacing and economy in patch 62165, as far as I understand those issues, were caused by the combat balance.
I've discovered something interesting since our practices last night, Stuart. Take a 90% grenadier army, some AA and bomb bots, and maybe a few skitters, and suddenly your armies can rip through defensive lines like they were smoke on the wind. The bomb bots help with finishing off factories and commanders. New Meta; Instead of T2, going orbital and using astraeus' escorted by a few Avengers to drop infernos in the enemy base is a viable tactic. Actually, it's almost unstoppable. And I love it. To fix grenadiers, you need to reduce their DPS and increase their cost to equal or slightly more than that of Dox. The DPS nerf should be just enough to reduce their kill time on infernos.
That says he is NOT ignoring it. It says it is second priority over pacing. It was more complained about than individual units not too long ago. Honestly, besides grenadier tweaks, I don't get why people say PTE is less balanced, how is anything less balanced than shotgun peregrines and spam nukes and spam t2. T2 is still OP in PTE but access to them is less and land control is big in gameplay.
Not really. Some of the economic values are a little silly (energy is all over the place right now), but I wouldn't say T2 is OP, especially since nearly all T2 units and structures are much less economical than their T1 counterparts and since T2 metal extractors take so long to pay themselves off.
Actually. land control isn't that big of a deal. You can spam out a sufficient army to overrun your enemy with approximately 20 mex. Most planets have plenty more than that. Mind, flanking and such is still incredibly powerful. Just not incredibly necessary.
T2 UNITS are still OP. Gunships still rape ground units. T2 Naval still overruns T1 naval like noone's business. Just because the eco has been nerfed doesn't mean the units aren't still ridiculously powerful. Unless you have grenadiers kiting and being actively microed, t2 vehicles eat any ground unit from a distance or from up close.
That says he is ignoring it. Reexamine my argument please. The pacing is more complained about. But the pacing would not be a problem at all if base defences did not make T1 useless. The pacing was a direct result of the crappy combat balance. I'd like to remind you of build 58772, where racing to T2 at the expense of building military could result in being vulnerable to rushes. T2 is not OP in the PTE. The ratio of 12 Ants to 1 Leveller is heavily in favour of the Ants. Edit: removed random words: 'whole reas' from end of post.
That... doesn't make any sense. If a unit is prohibitively expensive, it is not OP (no matter how good it is). If I make a unit that is effectively 100 dox in its abilities but with the cost of 1000 dox, it is not OP. Also, gunships are countered hard by T1 AA bots.
Played a multiplayer match with the addition of some bots (the lobby was a ghost town) the other day. Here are some observations. -No issues with metal icons. -In one game of about 4, there was a period where the game would freeze up and stutter, but the UI would remain responsive. This cleared up after about 5-7 minutes and was not encountered again. -Several instances of builders straight up stopping a build sequence, e.g. a line of factories, with absolutely no obstructions in the way. No trees, no unit husks, nothing. -T1 defenses might as well not exist, save for fending off small expansion raids or scouts. Against an easily spammable and buffed T1 army, they are not very effective at all. Might be the extreme side of underpowered, or close to it. -When the AI starts on a different planet from all human players, it breaks. Has no idea how to scout or get to the players - just builds up a pile of tanks or planes and sits there. This also happened with previous stable builds (not just the most recent). I've actually seen 3 different teams of AI on a the sample planet (on which no human players started) and just sit there without attacking each other, accumulating units. -At one point, I had destroyed a teleporter that my shared-army partner had selected (delete key). My ally reported that their cursor was stuck selecting the (nonexistent) teleporter, and had to restart and rejoin the game to fix it. -This might not be a bug, but it is a tad odd: in the system view, the list of planets is not sorted by distance from the sun when each planet has it's own solar orbit. Maybe I'm assuming a bit much, but it seemed kind of random how they were listed. - I also witnessed AI commanders flee their planet only to land solo on a planet that I had strong control of. It seems they have some idea of when to ditch town when they are losing, but their choice of destinations / relative threat levels seems to be lacking. - The strength of T1 makes going T2 for upgraded units almost completely unecessary. Land unit-wise, anyways. Gunships are still amazing. - I like very much how I can take down a solo Comm with a group of 20 or so tanks. The uber cannon nerf and T1 strength increase has made commanders non-invincible. - My partner in a 1v1 complained that it took around 8 grenadiers to kill off an inferno (bot vs tank battles). Though I think he had a poor ratio of stingers vs grenadiers, the high HP of tanks was certainly formidably. Take that as you will. - The AI is like a virus that just keeps spreading and won't go away! They are definitely very tenacious in holding out on a planet and expanding. - The current PTE meta seems to be "spit out the most units (that aren't doxes) or get overrun". Though this seems like a logical thing, it kind of prevents any other methods of gameplay. The diminished power of defenses also makes it difficult to do things like rush orbital, since even a few tanks can do a lot of damage.
For some reason the UI seems to respond very slowly. It takes a fairly large fraction of a second for it to respond to mouseovers and clicks. I can still click on things as fast as I want, and those clicks will eventually register, but the feedback is very slow (even at the very beginning of a match).
T1 AA is not a hard counter to gunships. You trade aa and gunships metal for metal, and gunships will come out the winners every time. And that never happens. Because you need a land army to prevent an overrunning of your base. Price does not determine if a unit is Over Powered - it's ACTUAL Combat Effectiveness compared to its INTENDED Combat Effectiveness. (generally speaking, of course). Vanguards are OP because they lay waste to entire bases without any support, even when swarmed by t1 units. Gunships are OP because they are the most powerful offensive weapon you can have on the battlefield - the fastest speed and highest damage all rolled into one package. Nukes are not OP because they fulfill their intended role; they just need work to make the gameplay more interesting and strategic. Grenadiers are OP because they slaughter everything. Will adjusting the price help this? Absolutely. Is it the entire problem? No. They need their DPS adjusted. 20 Gunships is a ridiculous investment in the PTE right now. It's almost as much as a nuke launcher and a good portion of the nuke. And twenty gunships is quite a lot of firepower - an unsupported comm will be dead in only a few seconds, and any supporting air cover can be torn to shreds by a few T2 Fighters. It needs fixed. But do not mistake *now expensive* for *Balanced*. That's a rabbit trail that could lead to things like megabots and t3.
Waiwaiwai... You are talking stable in a thread literally titled "PTE Stream 65588"? By default, unless previously specified, EVERYONE here is discussing pte, arent they? PTE is a ghost town because most people dislike using it. It is a good build. But most people play more populated Stable, or prefer Stable balance although I can't understand how. Bugs are getting fixed. Not that I experienced very many. Game shuttering with fully working UI is usually a result of network connection. You or It must have had a hiccup in the internet. Builders who "think" there is no path somewhere drop build orders. You notice this with navy, it shouldn't happen land-to-land. I get this one too, as well as bots standing in the way of the builder. I build turrets and most importantly walls. Those grenadiers tear them up, as their role. However, a variety of things, such as barely double-overlapped spaced turrets, and combat fabbers stationed on small patrol or otherwise on the turrets, and having a grenadier/inferno army of your own to respond to attacks on your turret, still makes it heavily favor defense. I don't use ALL of those strategies at once, and I lose 1 turret usually a game, and it usually doesn't cost me a breach of my base when it happens. Nice to know about the AI. Although last game I played, I had it flee my planetary conquest, go to the moon, and smash me. Made me feel like a piece of **** player... When UI goes black, freezes, or has cluttered stuck icons, click f5 and that closes and opens CoherentUI again, starting the UI from new without leaving the game. System view of planets in list is determined by... original placement in system editor? As in when you put one planet in, then another, then another... Which means they list in order if you place them closest to farthest. I think. AI commanders deciding to go to heavily occupied planets, definitely suicide, second time I heard of this error of judgement on their behalf too. I like how t2 becomes optional instead of mandatory. Mistake not, t1 wins by actual power, t2 wins by snipes. You can still use gil-e and shellers to level bases from safety, vanguards with pelicans to drop onto commanders, and kestrels as steady dps response attack units while I still believe t2 bombers have a useful one-hit damage. Kestrels are only slightly op, they are really hit or miss, they could use tweaking to use in passes and survive a bit of AA. I still think a commander can defeat 20 t1 units at once, probably lose quarter or half health. I hear grenadiers though, if they get in range they flatten the health, that might just be an issue with that though. Which leads me to my next question. Infernos, they are good sure, but most people complain grenadiers have high damage. Only reason I think infernos are competitive is they are cheap for high health, which directly affects their cost/speed of repair, making it high repair speed for it's vast health. That might make them difficult to kill with anything less than 100% damage at once. I think the AI is great, there is definitely no chance for it to bore anyone at least. Maybe it is a case of "right man for the job". I think massed units are viable again, not terribly OP but viable. They used to be in alpha, and most people have fond memories of that. The massing of t1 will probably be welcome. That is my personal unofficial response to your feedback. Thanks for the feedback post too.
