Please remove t2 factory build restrictions from builders

Building one engineer to start the building of t2 is not such a big decision or a strategic element. In the case you provided I would just rush build t1 naval factory, rush build that one boat engineer, make it start building t2 factory and then rush build that with the plane builders. I would lose, what, 10 - 30 seconds compared to plane builders just building the t2 boat factory. To me that is just jumping through hoops for no benefit to depth.

I don't support the idea of combining factory functions. I just think that tying one basic structure that you will surely want to build into dedicated builders you would not otherwise use is a useless function.

I agree with Brian and this is also why I like the high cost of t2 in PTE (the units could be cheaper but definitely the factories and fabbers and ecostructures).

You should take a while to access t2. When you do, you should have supplement units at your disposal. The time to get another t2 fact. should be less but it should be a big player decision which one you get. Going from air to advanced vehicle just feels easily granted, instead of investing into vehicle and air and getting advanced vehicle and air. The cost of both t2 factories and the cost of their use should provide more flexibility and duality but not provide the density of 2 t2 factories. It is a strategy thing.

To go 2 t2 factories means you would have the densest toughest largest ground armies, to go a t2 air and vehicle means you would have pelicans and kestrels to support your big-enough armies. Either is strong depending if your enemy has anti-air or air themselves or bots or vehicles.

Anyway, the BIGGEST thing about it I guess is also the fact that t1 factories shouldn't be skippable. They should be important. You should practically need 1 of them before using t2 units effectively anyway. Like in @Kruptos example, using air to skip to t2 naval, you would have no narwahls and bluebottles and sunfish, how would those leviathans and stingrays work out?

But how exactly does building one engineer you would not otherwise build affect when and how you enter t2? The cost of the factory remains largely unaffected (7200 for factory and 300 engineer). If you don't have the economy to run multiple factories you are still going to stick to just one t2 factory. If you don't want to build t1 bots, how does building one factory to produce one engineer force you into using t1 bots?

In my games I use all the available units. I'll change the ratios depending on what I need most at the moment. Engineer wise I usually have one factory constantly pumping bot engineers and then I'll recruit the odd planes to get proxy bases/defenses built. When I have the economy to get multiple t2 factories I'll need to go out of my way to build those missing engineer types just to start building the missing factories. I'll finish them using my main engineer force, usually 10 or so bot engineers. Having to build those few otherwise useless engineer types is pointless in my eyes since it gives nothing to my overall game experience. It just wastes my time.

Seriously this all boils down to this: Do we want to divert the players attention into making that one otherwise useless t1 engineer or do we want players to keep focused on more important matters.

Proxies and other planets and multi player multi start build. Which factory and units you build is particular, you shouldn't just be able to throw another game-changing one up with a "specialized" unit.

It both dictates the cost and prerequisite of t2, to have a t1 factory first. If you don't have anything invested in naval or air, why do you not get to pay to establish t2 air? To quote exact scenarios I would consider it would make the game "soggy and lame":

-Sending an air fabber to another planet is required for t2 air which some use to cover planets with defenders, and against another enemy can be shot down. Those can't even go through teleporters yet, and if they should go through them is another game mechanic.

-I just watched a game where a nuke wiped out t2 air, and afterwards the enemy followed up with peregrines to clean up air units. He tried to establish it again, but the enemy kept doing fighter passes. If you don't have air superiority, and any old bot can establish t2 air, that changes the game.

-If you go nothing BUT air and want to vanguard drop, you shouldn't be able to just "grab a vanguard" from a t2 factory you can easily put up, you should have to use the t1 vehicle factory to make a t2 vehicle factory.

-If you go to a naval planet and establish air, and start to lose to a naval force with adequate naval anti air to support their fighters (their fighters attack and then retreat through their naval AA), you shouldn't be able to establish t2 naval just because your air was hard countered. That is a big one because air is faster than naval and against a naval force you can flee to the opposite side of the planet and build one before they can swim around.

Several of those situations dictate limited cost for transport and I don't think you should be able to build t1 factories with t2 fabbers with how OP it is to preestablish t2 eco and cata before any t1. Same t1 factory as t2 fabber at best, not all 3 like current. I especially don't like triple t2 unit access simultaneously, or in any location you have a single fabber remaining like proxies or remote planets.

Once again, the cost of the t2 factory or the time it takes to get one, wouldn't change. Building one engineer from a factory you already have or building a new factory + engineer doesn't take that long compared to the time it takes to build a t2 factory. T2 wouldn't magically turn into a no investment or insta-build by this change.

I want to keep separate factories and I have not once said I want to unite them. How exactly would you get all units simultaneously?

like I said. In some situations you don't have every type of fabber for a reason.

I listed those reasons. In those situations, you would have 1 type and which one is your choice, but you wouldn't have 3 different ones so why does getting 1 fabber somewhere get you 2-3 different t2 factories? Proxies, planets, those bases should have to "mature" to establish parallel tech

technically, I dislike how you can just send a t2 air fabber via astraeus to another planet and establish t1 bot factory once there. T2 fabbers maybe, MAYBE shouldn't be able to build any t1 at all, but its a massive leinancy to let them build all t1.

I say that for the same reason, if you only have one fabber in a certain place, and it is a t2, whether you sent it first or your enemy killed all but it, should one really be able to access basic tech with a specialized fabber? Should one be able to skip basic tech and have access to the whole enchilada with the next tech?

Basic factroys should be essential, advanced factroys should be situational to the terrain and enemy.

Sometimes a straight forward force of T1 is just better then a army of gadget users who can't deal with a actual battle without their niche.

I think it's a problem because of that eventuality with the current combat balance. If you don't have naval supremacy, building the t2 naval factory is going to be very difficulty even if you don't have to build the other factory first. And don't forget, this t2 naval factory could be in fact be a rebuilding of your first t2 naval factory.


The other thing is that the one fabber of the wrong type you do build isn't actually needed at all to complete the project.

I don't know. It seems like a bit of a waste to build 1 air factory, 1 air fabber, 1 t2 advanced factory, reclaim fabber, reclaim air factory...

It would be awesome if each factory had two rally points, one for combat units, one for fabbers.

I didn't know you could do that. We need a separate thread dedicated to little tips like this!