Assisting structures... good or bad?

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by chronosoul, April 23, 2014.

  1. chronosoul

    chronosoul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    941
    Likes Received:
    618
    So i've been thinking about this for a bit and wanted to hear other opinions on it.

    It comes a point in all PA games that you have the largest mass/energy income possible and can assist one structure or nuke launcher and pump out nukes every 20 seconds or 1 second slammers levellers or gunship/pereguine combos. To me, this bypasses the resource of time so effectively, that creating large factory bases or nuke silos doesn't make sense, its actually wasteful. (unless you want to spam a bunch of nukes to counter the anti nukes)

    If there was no factory assist for land or air units, building more units quicker actually means you build more factories.

    Take a look at T2 advanced and assist effectiveness

    ddddd.JPG

    . There are other draw backs to having engineers to factories, but i want to emphasize the production capability. There is little benefit to producing more factories when it can be more production efficient to just produce more engineers to assist the structure to get more units out quicker. If you take away the assist structure system for factories, it changes the production dynamic, and allows for proper game timing.

    What do you guys think?
    Last edited: April 24, 2014
  2. brianpurkiss

    brianpurkiss Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,879
    Likes Received:
    7,438
    I like factory assisting. It allows more strategic diversity.

    However, I propose increasing the cost of building fabbers as well as their energy consumption along side it. Power Plant output would probably need to be rebalanced with this.

    Then make the factories build extremely fast and extremely energy efficiently. So that way it makes more economic sense to build lots of factories, rather than 1 factory with lots of fabricators.

    That way we get the best of both worlds.
  3. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    all of what Brian said, and add 2 or more seconds to rolloff time (permanent untrimmable time each unit costs to make per factory). Then the fastest an assisted factory can make are 4 second units. Assist moar, still 4 second. Build factory, 2 second (2 fact with 4 second, 2 unit in 4 second, 2 second a unit)
    thelordofthenoobs likes this.
  4. Geers

    Geers Post Master General

    Messages:
    6,946
    Likes Received:
    6,820
    What he said.
  5. torrasque

    torrasque Active Member

    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    36
    You can fiddle with the energy consumption and the rollout delay to reach the sweet spot.
    What I meant by sweet spot is that people should be able to either build a lot of factories. Trading flexibility for efficiency. Or they should be able to build a lot of fabber assisting a few factories, tranding efficiency for flexibility.
    ... or a mix between both ..
    But it's important to not have one strategy constatly better than the other.
  6. chronosoul

    chronosoul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    941
    Likes Received:
    618
    The only strategic diversity i've seen is switching the fabbers from land factory to assisting a nuke. I don't think there should be such flexibility without high cost.

    There comes a line where increasing the fabbers energy cost to run or cost makes them that much more valuable, losing one can basically end the game for the opponent in the beginning. I do think it might be a positive step in the right direction though.

    I personally think if you want to be flexible with your construction, you have to pay for it in either energy or another inefficiency. where factory production is the better strategy.
  7. doomrater

    doomrater Active Member

    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    59
    I like the idea of making more rolloff time. As it is, I can put a single combat fabber on "patrol" between two t1 factories and it's able to be constantly assisting either factory at a time. Increasing rolloff time might just mean I could do this with more factories though...
    phantomtom likes this.
  8. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    It wouldn't have to be SO long that 2 factories sit idle a lot at the same time often enough. It would mean using area patrol to assist 2 factories would be the new pro move though. I actually think that might be decent.

    Think that should be the default way a fabber assists? If you use it to assist something, and they are on "down time", should they assist something else as long as it is within very few feet or already in reach of the selected target of assistance? Maybe they should always re-aquire assistance on the proper target when the target starts a build, and only assist other things in reach while the target is idle?

    For instance, if assisting one factory, finish until it's rolling off, assist another nearby factory while rolloff, then stop and go back to other factory the second it starts back up (leaving the other factory before that factory is even done).

    That is sort of what area patrol does, except it prioritizes the target, while area patrol leaves them building everything and not moving on until the current thing ends.
  9. doomrater

    doomrater Active Member

    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    59
    Dunno how I'd want that to work, but I can say that I can't get my commander to assist more than one factory at a time unless I micro him.
  10. phantomtom

    phantomtom Active Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    63
    Good. man its soo good. Plz dont take away assisting:(:):(:):(:):(:):(:)
    anyway it takes along time makeing a factory and if u need unit like right now ofc u assist. but if its an arms race and u dont really need units right now but ur plan is like, okay im gona keep building facs and THEN haha i will be in a strong pos to overrun everyone:D Even my unshare teammate:D iv done that sometimes... like all of a sudden turn`d on my teammate! that`s soo funny. Not killing him ofc. but wageing war:)

    Edit: if assisting is balacned? i thought it was like if u dont have eco u cant assist, how can it be imba? u cant use what u dont have. like u cant assist worth of 100 metal if dont have the metal right? im confused.
    Last edited: April 25, 2014

Share This Page