back to the factory spam

this is how it should be. the only solution I see? remove assisting factories and nukes and anti nukes.

discus.

Terrible.

We need to get back to factory spam, but removing assisting is not the way to do it.

I think factory spam is preferable to engineer assist spam. More factories means bigger, more sprawling bases that are harder to defend than just one factory.

While I agree we definitely need to go back to factory spam (nuke spam/sniper spam/vanguard assisted spam makes me weep), I would still like Assisting to play a role.

I suggested a balance which prevents Build Time becoming meaningless once you have a big economy and hundreds of Fabricators Here.
Basically two Factories would always be better than one.
(100% Efficiency for Factories in a stable economy with Assisting boosting them up to 125% Efficiency.)

This way we wouldn't have hundreds of Fabricator bots running around building things like nukes/snipers near-instantly.
In short, build times would mean something.

Why are nukes/anti-nukes assistable in the first place? I know you couldn't assist them in TA, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't in SupCom...

Previously, people have said that removing assisting would be an arbitrary rule, but to my knowledge, nobody complained about them not being assistable in the previous games. Plus it wouldn't be arbitrary if you hide the missile inside the building until it is completed.

Could somebody make the case for why nukes/anti-nukes were changed to be assistable from previous games? Don't say "it's removing an arbitrary rule", because that's a load of garbage, and not a good enough reason to justify the mass production of these powerful weapons.

The only reason I can come up with, is that Uber wanted you to be able to see the missile being constructed, because it looked cooler. Once the missile was visibly being nanolathed, they realized it wouldn't make sense if you couldn't put other nanolathe's on it, and here we are...

Factories, nukes, etc were definitely assist-able in SupCom. I'm not sure about TA as I've never played it. Assisting is a good way to easily spend your extra resources on something useful rather than letting them go to waste.

I really wish nukes weren't assist-able though. It makes late game into a game of "who can spam nukes harder? ".

I still stand by that non-assistable nukes is the greatest idea to ever come out of this forum, and it was really disappointing to hear that uber won't be implementing it...

When did they say that?

I can't see any other fix to the nuke spam than preventing the assist. If someone has a good idea how to fix it, I will gladly listen to him.

In one of the experimental live streams, someone asked if they'll remove nuke assisting and meta(or maybe it was Garat, I forget) said they were keeping it in.
He gave a reason but I can't remember what it was, something along the lines of "it's supposed to be in the game"

I am not quite sure either but I think it was Neutrino and he stated since Kickstarter that assisting will be in and part of the game. Nothing new there.

Back in the heady days of Nucks being the topic of conversation (they're still pretty high up there I suppose), I suggested a tiered system: Much weaker, range-limited, cheaper tactical nukes that had a more sharply defined damage fall-off from the center (support for planet-side/earlier game turtle busting essentially), and ICBM's, much more expensive than current nukes with similar capabilities and damage.

Tactical nukes couldn't be assisted, but orbital nukes could, with a twist: players would have an option to assist the nuke, but only if the nuke were 'exposed' from inside a hangar it could be hidden within. The player can expose and retract the nuke at will, but there is a couple second delay. If you manage to damage an enemies nuke a bit when it's exposed, it explodes with the strength of the tactical nuke, not only wasting resources but ruining a decent amount of stuff around it.

This would force a bit of micro, but in a good way; you'd really have to think about placement, whether the assist risk was worth it, and it would definitely discourage cranking out multiple factories unless you had undisputed control of the planet. So on a contested single planet, spam would be less likely, but in an orbital assault situation, heavy assisting to speed up breaking a planet turtle wouldn't be an issue.

Imo I preferred nukes ta style where they were inside a structure (and thus not assist-able by definition). This meant that you had a set time between nukes and a fairly long lead in before it was possible to get one (the fastest I ever saw it done was about 16 minutes with a very specialised build, usually you had at least 20 mins before they became an issue).

You could still spam them as you could make lots of launchers- however it prevented the kind of rapid fire nukes we see in PA.

with assist you still have to spam facs, it's easier. voted nay.

non assisting anti and nukes reducing buildtime per missile but raising their cost?
not assisting factories is nonsense since we WANT to spam those and assisting t1 factories is a waste anyway
but there is a advantage as well as a danger in assisting t2

Yo, i'll repeat a organic solution to this I posted a while back.

Make the building assisting range short enough, that engineers assisting or building will be limited to the number of units that can fit on the sides.

That way assisting is capped by the perimeter of the building it's self.

Make factories spend 0 energy? Currently, factories have a better metal/energy-per-second expense ratio than fabricators, so you're better off having 5 factories than 1 factory with assistance but we could boost that improvement by making factories even more efficient (or making fabricators even less efficient).

Anti-nukes just need to be way cheaper. I think currently they are in the neighborhood of 90% as expensive as a nuke. They should be more like 25% as expensive. Nukes should be more of a cleanup method and special-case weapon rather than something you regularly spam to overwhelm enemies. (Making nukes un-assistable would just prolong the time it takes to launch the nuke spam. I would still nukespam you to death, it would just be after my 16 nuke launchers finally finish their nukes rather than building 1 launcher and throwing 1000 metal+/second at it.)

If anything, the anti-nukes should be T1.

As I can see no reason why they shouldn't be.

I'm reminded of a few months ago when I was nearly flamed off this board for suggesting that

it was explained to me that such an inconsistency (some planes able to patrol, others not) would BREAK THE UI and was therefore completely unacceptable. iirc, it was "the worst idea ever". i think we lost a few board members to seizures that day, as a result of reading my thread. quite a few others had to be prescribed lithium.

seems to me having some factories assistable and others not is the same thing. our insurance can't afford another round with the psychiatrists.