So, I feel like most people can agree that current tier 1 ground is pretty terrible (I use it for ground aa, some scouts, fabs and not much else), with swarms of 20+ falling to a single undefended double turret (not even mentioning one protected by a wall) and groups of 40 being decimated in 5 seconds to commander ubercannon spam, especially when compared to the tier 2 tanks and mechs which absolutely destroy bases and commanders and drive through turret fire like it doesn't exist. I have a few ideas to change this a little bit. First, let's deal with the commando cannon. Currently the commander can destroy 40+ tier 1s in seconds while barely taking any damage himself AND can build a turret while doing it. On the other hand, a small vanguard rush will absolutely destroy the commander. My proposed change: Shrink the alt cannon splash radius to 1/3 of what it is now (about enough to hit 2-3 tier 2s in formation, but only about 4-5 tier 1s as opposed to 8). Next, increase the damage so it instantly kills any tier 2 it hits, but also add a 2-3 second "shutdown" period where the commander cannot move, shoot or build after using the cannon (this stops him from running or building turrets while doing it, while also taking away his ability of firing it every second). This gives you basic defense against small vanguard drops near your commander or small rushes of t2s, but it also gives a swarm of t1s an actual chance of doing good damage or even killing a commander Now, let's deal with the turrets. As is, a double laser turret with no walls can destroy about 20 tier 1s, and with walls that number can easily triple. At the same time tier 2s can generally wade through turret fire without taking more than a loss or two, this makes tier 1 ground armies entirely useless and tier 2 armies ridiculously powerful (I feel way too dirty for the number of times I've waded 8 vanguards and some t1 air superiority fighters into a heavily defended base and destroyed everything). My proposed change: Double turret damage per minute, lower the rate of fire so it only kills 1/3 as many tier 1s per minute as it does currently (what I mean by this is the individual shot is far stronger, so even though it shoots much slower it overall does more damage, but to tier 1s, this damage is wasted since it's focused on a single weak target) This basically doubles turret strength against t2, while reducing it to 33% of what it is currently against t1s. This could also open up strategies such as using a force of tier 1s to rush in front of your force of vanguards and absorb turret fire while the vanguards get into range I feel like these changes would bring tier 1 ground back into the game when it comes to killing commanders and early base assaults while also making tier 2 less of an I win button against bases and commanders without tier 1 support to absorb damage
I find the Uber Cannon is fine as it is. A pronged T1 attack is very hard to defend against using the Commander. Even if you eventually kill them all, you will lose a good chunk of your base. The turret idea is quite good though.
What would you consider prolonged? Currently if the commander is spamming the cannon while building a wall/turret, I feel like he could probably take 80 tier 1s solo, which I think is just too much, especially when a couple of vanguards can kill him
You can shoot the uber cannon even when you have no energy. When it will be fixed, the uber cannon will be naturally nerfed.
Yeah, t1 armies still kill the base even if not the commander, and a commander without a base is a dead commander anyway. You kill the base, you kill the commander. Even if you harass the base, you kill the commander if they no longer stand on par with your own base. Turrets, they shouldn't kill 20 by no means or cost as little if they do. There is no saying the best way to go but there is room for adjustment. I just think the uber cannon in no way invalidates t1 armies doing damage. If you can scout the commander, just because you can't kill him, doesn't mean he can defend more than 4 mexes at once. Turrets can be everywhere at once. The commander can't. To spell it out, just kill everything BUT the commander with your t1 armies. Honestly, then you CAN kill the commander with t1 armies, because he will not have even established t1 while you will have t2, but you won't need t2 because the 200 stockpiled t1 units can kill the commander, especially spread into 6 directions around him and sent in columns instead of lines from 6 sided directions. Technically, t1 units can kill the commander, I watched a newbie on youtube get killed by t1 units, using the Ubercannon still, but he lost his base to t1 armies, and when you lose your base you can't even produce healer, and when you can't produce anything anymore just one dox at a time takes a shot until commander k0.
I'm pretty sure 200 T1 units could be killed by 11 turrets if the army faces them head on... certainly if 10 towers could if they had walls infront of them...
I think it may be less about making T1 more relevant and more about making T2 less powerful. As currently T2 is a direct replacement for T1 armies. Games end up using T2 as the meat and potatoes with T1 screeners for body count. I'm pretty sure Uber never intended for T1 just to be bodies to shield T2.
who puts that many turrets together? You kill one, avoid the others. walled, I agree, 4 walled turrets could. unwalled, 11 to 200, I would like to see the Pepsi challenge on that one, especially clustered. You don't understand, the space it kills units before the units in range is key. You don't have that with large numbers. 200 against 11, they would face 180 in range, and 20 in range 1 hit kills turrets... So once in range the turrets not so scary turrets unwalled devastate if it kills the group before reaching range. Or they devastate x5 with walls. I've never lost a walled turret against 30 or 40, but turrets take 4 or 5 shots to kill, no?
Laser defense towers desperately need to have their cost increased again. All of Advanced needs to be balanced out as well. Advanced Air desperately needs to be balanced out.
Imho, the problem with T1 is the fact that T2 is a much stronger version of it for not so much higher price. A vanguard, for example, cost like 4-5 times a inferno but have 10x the life and the dps of the first. Make so T2 open up new strategies that T1 can't do instead of replace T1 units and we'll see more T1 use. This and the upcoming balance of T1 vs turrets would probably fix the problem.
Simple things to is all thats needed. For example... *keeping hps the same* off the top of my head Inferno Sheller Inaccurate long range rockets, fast rate of fire vs Accurate long Range shells, slower rate of fire. Basic tank (forget name atm) Leveller Faster tank, cheaper biuld vs Slower tank, more damage more range. T1 Bomber T2 Bomber Single target hard hitting bomb vs Carpet bombing, but low damage T1 Figher T2 Fighter Faster, High Rate of fire vs Slower, AoE Missles lower damaage (target limits), can go orbital
