Let's Talk about Gil-Es

Fixed? Sounds like its working as intended IMO...

Agree, we need more focus on rebalancing T1, defenses, and walls. Large armies have totally vanished and need to be brought back. Once we have a meta with large t1 armies and small groups of t2 'special forces' we'll really be getting somewhere. Maybe a buff to t1 factories to make them cheaper and faster, with t1 units slightly cheaper. They should wash over walls like a wave.

We need to make towers more expensive. That is what was changed to make them OP. And it's what needs to be changed back.

This is my first contribution to the forums, so I hope I dont get flamed for it, but what I think is really needed is a 3rd tech tier. Super units like the TA Krogoth etc. would be cool to but that's not what I'm talking about, just a 3rd tier of "specialist" units that can counter the increased but basically conventional firepower of the T2 units. They should be expensive to produce, 1000-2500 a go (depending on their abilities of course), so it would be more like commiting to building some structures, taxing resource management a bit more.

What roles they would have specifically I dont know, but an unpelicanable, unteleportable rolling fortress with heavy firepower but pitiful speed would stop bases simply being overrun by swarms that are too large to repel with turrets, but wouldn't be able to flatten bases themselves because they'd take too much fire while moving so slowly, in the same vein they'd have to draw fire from the afforementioned swarms. Being third tier nukes would be on the table and could easily counter them before they hit a base, and they would have a dedicated factory that took considerable resources to build too.

I'm only putting this forward because games can often be decided simply by who can send the biggest army of the right kind in the most quickly, I think unit for unit balance is actually fairly solid, but the lack of variety in options can make games seem very "(rock/paper/scissors)/planet" sometimes.

T3 units could be faction specific maybe? I know that's a way off but it's just a thought.

See you on the battlefield folks

OR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We can make T2 units not be generalists who are better then T1 units in almost every possible way, and then include all of the crazy units and half baked ideas into T2 proper.

Welcome to the forums. T3 units have been firmly denied by the devs, as they turn the game into a rush for T3. They will not be appearing.

Gil-E will be naturally nerfed when they won't be able to shoot through terrain.
Use them on open terrain and not in areas with obstacles : Unit specialization.

Apparently they're fine with the rush to T2 though; it's a shorter distance, so not as many people end up sweaty.

Well, hopefully we'll be seeing a rebalance of t1 and fortifications to reverse that current trend

Scathis doesn't seem to think there's a problem with T2 "upgrade" units.

Was it not @neutrino stating in the unit cannon conspiracy terrorism thread that he is partial towards T2 being an upgrade for some units and that that whole 'T2 specialist'-thing is some sort of forum-Frankenstein's-monster?

It was in the all-day livestream. I remember it since Scathis... basically called me out and interjected a rather (to me personally at least) insulting impersonation of my standpoint.

Love was lost on that day.

Whether Neutrino supports it in the thread you're referencing or not is neither here nor there for me. It's his game, he can do what he wants. In my opinion he's wasting development space, time and resources on some very questionable design choices that don't lead to much depth of gameplay... but I'm only one voice in a sea of other voices. Maybe he has reasons for doing it that way. He hasn't convinced me of his reasoning any time I've brought it up in conversation however.

What? What? What? Didn't they clearly stated they wanted to make specialized t2 units?! Or i don't fully understand the meaning of "partial".

They want to make some. Some T2 will be unique specialists, others will be direct upgrades of T1 roles that they want to remain "relevant" in an overpowered T2 world.

Why they don't just make T1 relevant for the entirety of the game just boggles the mind... or it does mine anyway. If T2 isn't a substantial upgrade over T1, but rather a sidegrade that opens up choices rather than raw power, then T1 wouldn't need a T2 equivalent role to remain "relevant"... it would do so simply by being relevant in the first place.

Your powers of observation continue to serve you well, I am afraid. @neutrino explicitly stated he does not rule out T2 being upgrades in some cases.

edit: How a player is to discern those two I do wonder. Do they intend to say in the tooltips 'Vanguard - definitive version of the Inferno. If you intend to continue using the latter, just don't!'? Or do they automatically upgrade, Rise of Nations style? Bollocks.

They intend to "balance" it around the quantity of each you'll have. An economy can support either a LOT of Infernos, or a few Vanguards.

My signature quote still rings true to my ears. They're fiddling about with mere quantities and giving little thought to different the qualities a unit could possess, meaning that we get a system that, as economic power and build capacity increases, becomes ever more and more favourable to pump out the "upgrade" unit, over the basic one; thus obsolescence of the basic tier, thus failure to use the developmental space efficiently.

Essentially they're wasting art assets and lowing the potential number of different interactions within the game.

But I'll give them something; upgrade units are REALLY easy to do... so they have that going for them.

Minor tweaks could make a mix worthwhile. Vanguards with higher health per metal (than inferno) and infernos with higher damage per metal (than vanguards) could do this. The other way round might be preferable.

Alternatively, make one of them have such a weak weapon that they are just a walking wall, only to be used in conjunction with other units.

Minimum effective solution, yes. Doesn't make the art feel that worthwhile though... Essentially you're just making a "dirtbag".

That at least would not make one a direct upgrade of the other.

Or better, put a reasonably strong bomb on it that can take out most structures with a reasonably high area of effect.