Let's Talk about Vanguards

And then get crushed by a ground army.

This strat forces you to turtle. If you turtle, then they'll take out all of your mexes, followed promptly by a nuck that undoes all of your turtle. There's no non-turtle way to deal with this.

Your making out that there is no way to beat this strategy, and that every time its done its 100% win.
Think of the players and the skill levels, a good player wont allow such a thing to happen easy. And if your not as good then you got plenty of room to improve. There is such a big mix of skill in the community right now, and you cant balance a game because a select few people feel this is over powered. Im not saying it is not but the game is still being made so there is plenty of time for change and balance.

at this point I'm getting the distinct impression that anyone mentioning "nucks" have a poor perception of nuke and turtle strategy and balance

which in hindsight makes sense.

**** you

Voted for "Don't change the Uber Cannon, that fixes nothing." because it was the closest to "don't change anything". vanguards are fine the way they are now, vanguard drops are fine and actually quite a interesting risk/reword strategy.

The commander can take out a vanguard with ~ 3->4 shots from the Uber cannon which seems fair seeing as these units are costly and are meant to tank a ton of damage. We need units that when you see them coming at your com you are forced to make him retreat. The com should be something you have to protect in later game.

If you don't have defenses and t2 fighters over your base you are at risk of being dropped on, simple as that. Also if you actually scout you can easily see that the enemy so going to do a drop on you and mess it up before he has time to do it.

If I was to change anything I would give the transports an unload stage where they slowly come to the ground and drop off the units, this would give a change for the commander/other ground attack units to destroy the transport before it has fully dropped off the unit.

If anything remove the T1 Inferno, as to ensure that the Vanguard is a unique specialist at T2.

As other have said adjust the HP and/or speed of the unload of the transport instead of nerfing the Vanguard. This lets a player determine how boldly to encroach the target base.

I find that if vanguards are dropped by themselves the bomb bots make short work of them.

My thoughts on the Vanguard. I like it, however it's damage is WAYYY to much. Otherwise I think it's prefect between it's meatshield ability and it's larger sight range. Bring down it's damage (maybe to inferno levels?) and I think all is well.

As to the Inferno... replace it's weapons with long range inaccurate rockets that leave little napalm patches as a secondary effect besides the direct hit of the rocket. These patches are not enough to destroy anything outright. Make the damage maybe a 1/4 the hps of the T1 Bots. The hps of the unit I am unsure if should be reduced or left alone. As the Vehicle is inaccurate I feel the hps of the inferno would be fine were it is, making it a tougher then normal artillery unit due to it's inaccurate. This gives T1 an artillery style vehicle while not stepping on the toes of the Sheller which is a long range accurate artillery.

The problem is not the vanguard itself. The problem comes from the vanguard pelican combo. Why?

Because Uber put a lot of HP in the vanguard to increase it's survivability (time to get to the enemy units). The pelican acts as a speed buff.

Also, a combat unit (which it is, not like the repair bot...) should not rely on another support unit to be effective.

So, the solution is really simple:

- Buff the speed of the vanguard.
- Decrease it's HP to be manageable by the DGUN.

So, no more need of the pelican (yay less micro), the unit has it's own purpose (raiding enemies installation) but is still vulnerable to fast moving units (bombers) and to the commander's DGUN.

I've made a similar topic about it's T1 counterpart:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/boom-and-flame-tanks.58220/

If someone can get me a few seconds of some Vanguards trundling toward the camera (use the debug camera to get close to the ground so it's at a low angle), I will make an awesome and somewhat relevant GIF. Icy terrain highly preferable.