Limit Range of Deep Space Radar

So I was playing a match with a friend last night, and we both reached orbit and spread out to several different planets across the system. The match was at its most interesting when had no idea what planets the other was moving to, so that you had no idea whether you would run into each other after landing. Soon, however, we had both built deep space radar and we suddenly had vision on every orbit in the system.

I propose that the sight range of the deep space/telemetry radar be limited in one of the following ways:

1: Limit the radar to a certain radius around the planet it's built on. The radius could be checked from the celestial view, and the orbits of any planets that pass/orbit within that radius would be visible. (This would make systems with elliptical orbits more interesting, because planets with those orbits would pass near other planets less often than those with perfectly circular orbits.)

2: Limit the radar to the orbit of the planet it is built on, as well as the orbits of any planets in orbit around that planet. The radar would see the orbit of the planet it is built on, and any of its moons. To see the orbits of distant planets and their moons, a separate radar would need to be built on one of those planets. This would also mean that it would be impossible to see anything in the sun's orbit.

Any comments/ideas/suggestions are welcome!

I think the deepspace radar should have even less than current t2 radar range worth of own planet's orbital layer. Then again, I think t2 radar needs nerfed too.

I think it should see anything making orbital transit.

In light of that, I think maybe it should be able to see radar of anything in it's immediate orbit (moons or the moon's planet) as in just blips, or maybe not even that.

However, most importantly, to prevent micro of having to constantly watch the orbital layer or check your radar and chronocam, it should also let you see any ending destinations of orbital transit made while you had deepspace radar up. Just show the unit making transit's last known position before entering the planet. That way, you keep a log of where the units went.

I also want standard radar to do that, remember the units you saw when they are in radar range. So if you scout, the radar remembers the unit type instead of just the blip, so you don't have to micro that either in order to remember exact units that were saw and were in radar range but are no longer seen but are still in radar range.

Another thread discusses basically those last 2 ideas.

I like the first option. It would give quite an interesting twist to things, as in only seeing what's going on near other planets when they get into range for a bit.

I realize I'm somewhat necroing this thread, but I was just thinking about this and am happy to see someone already mentioned it. I agree that the mystery and work in figuring out where your opponent is makes the game much more strategically interesting and fun to watch.

I think I would go even further than your suggestion though. Right now, deepspace radar is somewhat OP in it's god mode/can see everything everywhere-ness; it tells you exactly where other players have landed planets away (by way of orbital fabber location), who's moving commanders where, and ruins any surprise orbital construction on single planet games. Being able to hide some of your orbital hand and not simply give away all that super valuable intel by building one cheap structure begs somewhat of a re-design IMO.

I think the deepspace radar should be nerfed so it can only see maybe a Holkins range of the orbital layer above itself, and nothing else. Nothing once objects have left orbit, or that are outside that range. A new orbital satellite that's not too expensive could show interplanetary trajectories but nothing else; you would need to travel to a planet with some orbital scouts (also new unit) to find out, if possible, where your enemy was.

I'm sure a lot of people will probably hate this idea, just like a lot of people hated the nerf to the advanced radar satellite (first nerf was a bit too much), but I think it would make orbital a lot more interesting, and really up the surprise and scouting game and lead to more interesting matches.

a good partitioning could be also that a deep space radar could only see transfers from and to that planetoid. I could also a see a unit that targets a spesific planetoid while itself not being on it. If it would be a orbital unit it might be sniperable? Maybe have it so that everyone on the targeted planetoid would see that "scanner" from the foreign planetoid.

Another mechanic that probably has problems that wont be able to be overcome, planetoids shadowing (interplanetoid) radar. So if you are only being scanned from one direction you could hide stuff behind your planetoids shadow. Offcourse if you happen to have a base on the "lit" side of it you can't provide immidiet coverage from incoming laser satellites (but then the scanner won't pick radar signatures up (making "foot patrols" still relevant)) (but then again planets rotate so any base will inevitably be unprotected). And scanning a planet from multiple locales would make the shadow too small / non-existent (possible form of mitigation make the signal partially pierce the planetoid surface so a radar near would see throught the planetoid (no shadow) and a far away scanner would form a bigger shadow (makes inner / outer planet / orbital phase relevant)).

I do think that seeing the transfers must be possible.

The reason I would separate those are because they are pretty different types of information. A deepspace radar covering your base would mostly be for defensive purposes, and allow you to see laser snipes/large orbital movements coming your way.

The "planetoid transition" satellite you would build in space would be more specifically for intel gathering, to determine what planet your enemy may be headed for. It should still be relatively cheap, but you'd need to build a fabber and build it.

Then, once they got into the orbit of that planet, your intel would disappear again, and you'd need to send orbital scouts to search the layer for where your enemy went.

Basically, the idea is to add a bit more strategy to both offense and defense by limiting information, which leads to more interesting surprise attacks, and requires a bit more effort to figure out how to counter your opponent's strategy via proper scouting.

ah I intially understood that the satellite would show all transitions even between unrelated planetoids

I'm for the idea of the deepspace and orbital radar having limited range.

Might be interesting but would deffinitely prolong the game.

The more deep space radars you build on a planet, the larger the detection radius around the planet is. We can say it's some kind of interferometry.

Yeah, I'd be curious to see how that goes. Since you'd have less info, you'd be harder pressed to figure out exactly what your enemies doing if you're not scouting enough, and they could quickly end the game with an unexpected tactic. On the other hand, some games would certainly get dragged out due to lack of intel. I'd like to try it out though, still seems more interesting than the current way.

I think Shalkka's idea is my favourite so far, but I think I'm envisioning something different.
Split the ground to orbital radar into orbital radar and deep space radar for T1and T2.
T1 being what you would expect it to be, a limited but fairly large radius radar for that planet's orbital layer.
Deep space radar could have some really interesting mechanics. Maybe instead of showing everything, it could have an aim-able cone of sight which can be blocked by planets as shalkka suggested for the deep space radar, and could be used to see orbital units on other planets in view, in deep space within view and could maybe even detect buildings on other planets as radar blips if they are in view.

The way people have voted in this Poll is shortsighted in my opinion, which is ironic when it's a Poll about unlimited Recon. People didn't like it when Advanced Orbital Radar was given a limited direct LOS radius, but it has clearly helped tactical gameplay in the long run to not have complete planetary vision. Too much easily accessible recon detracts from tactics.

I think we should have radar blips - not have unit types revealed by radar.

I also think we should have T1 Orbital Radar apply to a planet, and T2 Orbital Radar for that planet and its moons, with a more expensive T2 Telescope for spying on distant worlds in other Orbits.

I don't like the DSR revealing everything. Makes it next to impossible to spring any surprises in the orbital layer. Since we have orbital radars why should the DSR see beyond its planet?

Well, I mean, it is called Deep Space Radar.
Honestly though, I think some kind of radar for interplanetary units is fine, but not a T1 one, and not one that is all-seeing.

I think there should be two tiers to the deep space radar. The first one should only show a limited, but decent range on one planet as well as any units that are travelling in well, deepspace. Then the second (t2) would be made by orbital fabbers and would be orbital (so you actually have chance to take it down) but can do what the deepspace radar does now. Or maybe a radar scrabling unit might interesting if it was balanced somehow . Its just way too easy to kill off any orbital attempts by your opponent unless they umbrella spam+anchor spam. I mean I was playing on a 1 planet system and decided to go orbital and get a radar sat up, as people usually dont expect orbital on a 1 person planet but is still very usefull. I also put up a deepspace radar just in case and saw they had orbital units, too, they were 5 fabbers working on laser. lol I literally made one avenger (takes like half a second) and sent it over there, and it took out all 5 of them just like that. If the space radar atleast showed blips instead of the actual unit it would balance it furthermore, as in that example those 5 units could of been 5 anchors for all I know and would easily wipe an avenger off. I know it sounds weird but orbital needs to be a little more like ground play in a sense .

arent orbital radars for monitoring movement on the planet and on its orbit while deespaceradar "just" monitors orbits of planets and transit between them?
having orbital radar allows you to send it to another ocupied or nonocupied planet ... with a deepspaceradar you cant do that as it only sees what is happening in orbit and is stuck on the planet as you build it on the surface ...
correct me if i`m wrong ...
generaly i consider it realy useful without having to rely on building orbital launchers and still be able to defend myself against any sort of orbital attack ... i could see it beeing put into tier 2 for that reason ...

edit: can we please not have two tiers of everything ...

You are right, but myself among other people are arguing that what DSR can "just" see is still way too much. That's the thing with DSR, you don't need to send it anywhere! It's super cheap, and provides a huuuge amount of valuable intel for basically nothing. Here is what one 300 metal investment in a DSR gets you:

• Full, perfect view of the entire orbital layer of the planet you are on. Good luck trying to build something like an SXX, advanced radar, or anything else orbital in secret.
• Full, perfect view of all units heading to all other planets
• Full, perfect view of the entire orbital layer on all other planets!

This means no surprise orbital assaults, always knowing where the enemy is headed, exactly where they are building teleporters on other planets, etc. It leads to lots of protracted, spammy games, instead of one player surprising another with something unexpected when they don't scout enough.

Intel is an important resource, and I hope that system intel gathering will be tightened up and emphasized like planetary intel (when they nerfed the god eye of the advanced radar). IMO, I think the DSR should be nerfed to only show a decent radius of the orbital layer over the DSR only (maybe a 4th of the planet or something) so orbital surprises are possible even on 1 planet systems.

@polaris173

i am aware of that .. as i said i imagine it to be built in t2 and get a well ammount of cost to it later as well as some other structures that are currrently t1 but might be t2 or even viceversa once the unitroster is more fleshed out

if there needs to be a change to the DSR (forgot if that is the case or not since i dont play very often) then it would be to simply view stuff as blips only ... so you know that there is activity in an area but you dont know exactly what ... so if you realy want to know whats happening you would have to send over a spysatalite with a couple avengers ...

also just noticed that i already voted .... -__-

I will go with the other option. I vote make it directional.

Currently the rotation of planets around themselves have no significance in the game beside the graphical candy. So here is an idea to make it affect gameplay. Make the Deep Space Radar DSR such that it only sees in the direction it's facing with unlimited range. So, it cannot give information on anything facing the other side of the planet it's on. And the vision field rotate with the planet rotation giving the DSR rotating blind side.

Now think of a tidally locked moon orbiting the main planet. If the enemy have only one DSR, I can time my orbital launch such that the enemy cannot see it. Now I land my fabricator on the dark side of the moon and build a secret base that I can launch surprise attacks from.

How hard is it to implement such feature?