Mechwarrior Online Developer Redefines Community Warfare

Was reading some stuff about MWO as I've started to enjoy the F2P game Hawken. I saw a LOT of hate on metacritic though, so I looked deeper. Seems a cautionary tale for the road PA seems to me heading down more and more these days.

"Mechwarrior Online’s road to launch is a cautionary consumer tale, fraught with anger and betrayal. It shows how a company can take a fan base dedicated to an old IP and completely alienate it through lack of communication, unpopular features, and oathbreaking. It shows how players need to be cautious of supporting a project based solely on the IP backing it."

http://games.slashdot.org/story/13/...-online-developer-redefines-community-warfare

P.S. I thought there used to be an "Off Topic" board for PA but can't seem to find it. Go ahead and move this forum mods if there is a more appropriate place for it.

You have to click the "Uber Entertainment Games" tab on the top left to see it: https://forums.uberent.com/forums/unrelated-discussion.4/

I guess instead of having off-topic for PA and MNC separate its just a global company off-topic forum.

Edit: To comment on the actual topic, regardless of what Uber does, I don't think PA could ever be as big a disappointment as MWO, for the simple reason that PA is moddable and MWO is not. Any perceived "atrocities" that Uber commits could simply be fixed by modders (other than disabling mods of course!).

Playing with people expectations is like playing with fire.

I have the feeling that Uber is still doing pretty well. They're putting great passion in the project, and so far the only complain I have is about the spread between the Kickstarter/Steam trailer and where the game is moving.

But it is still a damn good game. Perhaps the original issue is in being the project that ambitious.

Oh yes, and the Commanders mess. I consider that being an unhappy marketing choice. Everyone can make mistakes, it's a very human thing.

Only people who never do a damn thing make no mistake.

If only PGI had gotten the idea a little bit later, then they could have gone with the kickstarter craze and made their single player game like they were supposed too.

They really had no idea what they were doing with free to play and it's really sad because it probably killed an entire franchise of what would otherwise have been good games.

The internet is a community of cats.

Saying one thing and doing the other, however, should be a pretty clear RED FLAG. Uber is sorta-kinda doing this with the Unit-Cannon, but because of constant communication between us and them, we understand, and can support their decision.

MWO?
PS2?

Bad communication and surprise features in both. Both highly regarded as poisonous communities. Essentially, tons of hate all around.

Lesson to future developers: Get someone in charge who knows how to communicate with your playerbase.
OR
Go down in history as an average game company, or even a bad one.

Good job Uber.

I think the main difference is that Uber has always been quite clear where they're going in terms of actual development, with the exception of when they STOP working on a project. We got a fair bit of development info and stuff during the beta period of SMNC, and they've gone a hundred-fold overboard with PA's development, so whenever they do something people tend to know about it: they also seem very keen on taking player input into the design considerations.
From what I heard about MWO, they seem a lot less open about their design process. I've also found it's turning into a bit of a play on people's fandom limits, with some pretty crazy exploitative prices on Mechs ($500 for a single golden Clan Mech. For srs wtf??) It's a fun enough game, but the grind, the pricing, a lot of the just progression and user experience in that game is pretty messy.

Also Hawken is awesome but I played far too much of it and exhausted myself on it. I -DID- come across Mimneotic from SMNC one day on it though

A note.

I do not feel that this is an "Unrelated Discussion". In fact, it is pretty much related to the actual development of Planetary Annihilation.

I don't think we're gonna have an issue here.

The Uber devs communicate a TON with the community and are very active amongst the community.

The features that are being implemented are quite popular. There are a few semi-popular features not being implemented (shields, experimental, and the like), but honestly, it's a good thing that they aren't and the majority of the players, from what I can see, support not having those. The nay sayers will be brought around when PA picks up and becomes more popular.

And finally, oathbreaking. While Uber hasn't stuck to their original launch date, I don't think that's too much of an issue. People expected a flexible schedule and Uber shows that they're making tons of progress. I can't think of any other promises Uber has made that they haven't followed through on. They've been pretty up front throughout this entire process.

I do agree. It fits quite well in the PA General discussion.

good read btw. but i really dont feel this is the same deal as Uber. It is far from a warning and more so proof that uber is doing it right. We cant and should not get everything we want if its not going to work; one time I had a burger with Bacon, Egg, Guacamole, beef, mayo, mustard and they put it on a freaking donut with sprinkles. It was disgusting no matter how much of my favorite things where on it.
However, completely dragging a game like Mechwarrior into a non-simulation action adventure 3rd person gameplay with essentially a "spell" that instantly ruins heat management tactics was a complete game destroyer.
We know the uber dev's by face and name for crying out loud! How many games do live streams from day 1?
Just because the possible event of a broken a promise could arise about a feature doesnt mean they are laughing in a boardroom about how they screwed us for cash.

Sorry for double post but I had a second but rather different point with less obscure metaphors.

There is a big difference between a game that is kickstarted so that a team of individuals can get a business or game going with enough to both create what they want and get paid while doing so, with perhaps having a "kickstarted" business running (some folks may just get a game done and then its back to the drawing boards, small teams in this case); and a game that is a purchased IP with external funding and a business model such as free to play.

In many cases for studios you have what alot of artists call "the other side of the fence". A studio, be it games, tv production, visual FX, guitar building, synthesizer design/developement, glass blowing, etc, you name it, will have the Artist team where all the magic happens and it will have the Marketing and business model developement/client base.
It is an unfortunate reality that the Marketing/Client level is generally the boss. The business is for money, all business is for money. Artists live in an unfortunate reality of the need to eat and pay for shelter, business moguls live in a fantastic reality of paying themselves with the profit gained by paying talented artists and programmers (or other examples like above). Luckily for those at Uber, they have a fantastic CEO who works right on the floor with them, they design their own product and IP's, and have maximum creative control. This is the ideal studio to work for and more or less the bane of publishers...until they can convince a company purchase or hiring of course.

When you work for a game that is free to play, alot of your options from the client and business model design will rule out features or force implementation of such features. The Coolant flush purchase for MWO was most likely a request to "find a function players would most likely fork out cash for, a feature that is integral to gameplay and make it not available from the core free product". I have worked on shows that required the use of obscure story points to push a product that was outside of the main storyboard, it took alot of time to squeeze it in because it was jarring and uncanny but the clients are the boss and negotiation is a difficult art. Especially in the case of marketing, sometimes when they like their own ideas they REALLY like their own ideas and need to have that little change implemented. When the product is shown, the first thing they look for is that tiny feature or idea they pitched.

PGI cant just say on the forums "well it was marketings idea". Thats like publicly announcing it was your bosses fault on the same forum your boss payed somebody to manage. PGI's developement team cant be blamed to full spectrum, how they implemented it in gameplay yes, but in concept of purpose, no.

I have played a fair bit of MWO. This article is pretty awful, and even worse than this article is the MWO community.

Only scrubs use 3pv because it sucks. Honestly, this is balanced pretty well. You can get the extra situational awareness at the expense of no (very critical) HUD elements and broadcasting your position to the enemy.

Coolant flush costs credits which can be earned in-game, and are a consumable which can only be used once each per match. You could carry up to 3, but you're carrying them at the expense of other permanent modules like better zoom, target retention, etc. It does not completely remove heat management skill from the game.

The concerns about ghost heat are valid. It's a pretty weird system with no in-game documentation. The system could have been implemented far better.

PGI's real problems are:

• The game released with a very minimal feature set. I started playing ~a year after release, and it felt very simple with just 2 game modes that were very similar.
• Their dev team is extremely un-agile. It's a small team, and building a feature like a new UI takes a year+. Building Community Warfare is going to be 2 years+. Even if they read and understand all the player feedback, they simply can't respond to everything fast enough to keep their player base engaged.
• The hardcore MW fans are ravenous. Ravenous. Telling MW fans to consider modern game balance is like walking into a Twilight convention and announcing that the Twilight books are really kind of silly.
• The game is F2P. People have paid real money for a lot of this stuff, which only exacerbates people's reactions when balance gets changed.

I'm almost totally certain that PGI has metrics on all this stuff that contradict the loudest people on their forums.

TL;DR: MWO is really nothing like PA, and the shortcomings of the former have not a lot of lessons for PA to learn from.

MWLL, folks. It's where real Mechwarrior fans hang out.

Agreed that MWO is pretty sweet. I avoid these features like the plague. I prefer First person and a joystick, which btw is rediculous compared to the ease of mouse aim, it plays more like a tank and feels pretty awesome once you get the hang of it. Sound design blew me away especially, the large laser is like dubstep in a particle accelerator melting its way through solid steel. I personally have dropped a couple bucks on paint design, at some point they gave my paint back and the points they cost, then doubled the cost of the paint. Sort of poor execution on that part but its ok, its a business and I felt they underestimated the power of profit through non-gameplay changing personalization.
I havent played MWO in the last six months due to this certain game about smashing planets, have you heard of it?
I almost applied to PGI since its in town, mainly because of MWO, wanted to get mech modeling back into my life.
The modeler job posts where very tempting.

i hope pgi puts ai waves into it

that would be alot of fun for sure.

never played the campaings in those games only ai waves in mw 3 or vs ai deathmatch in mw 4 :mercs ... ... i know heresy

You know, I popped on Mechwarrior II after trying out MWO, just to remember the old times. Still the best Mechwarrior game. Screw modern graphics, modern balance, modern payment systems, and modern BS.

A poorly cracked copy of MW3 on a dell was the cornerstone of my gaming interest in grade 6.

I really liked the MW4 free release. Significantly better than the regular release. I'm still pissed it died.

To bad PGI killed it.