Land factories cost 600. Air factory cost 720. T2 land factories are ~9.2 times the cost of their base factory. 5500 vs 600. T2 air factories are ~4.58 times the cost of their base factories. 3300 vs 720. T2 completely overwhelms t1 as it should, but at present T2 air dominates all, in large part to it's immunity to most attacks and rather pitiful mobile aa. The fact that the cost is half of what is barely acceptable for t2 air factories compounds the problem. Another huge disadvantage to land armies is the severe lack of t2 mobile anti air while air only gets better vs ground. Even just a unit with twice the fire power and 100% boost to the projectile speed would be useful to swat down stray planes. Planes and gunships should be fragile compare to land vehicles of similar cost. The Gunship is the biggest rule breaker here. Doubling the cost to match the bomber would be fair if the stats remain unaffected. The air factory MUST be brought into line with the other factories and have it's cost doubled. Rushing t2 is a fair strategy but rushing t2 air should not be the only strategy. Point form summary. - X2 Cost T2 air factory. - Gunship X2 Cost OR X0.5 Health - T2 mobile anti air. X2 cost of t1 aa, X2 damage, X2 projectile speed. (hope to shoot down bombers when in small numbers before they reach the army to unload the bombs.)
The problem with t2 air is the t2 fighter. I played a game recently. Had 4 t1 air factories pumping out fighters and missile turrets. My opponent rushed t2 air and had literally nothing bar 2 factories (t1 and t2 air) a few extractors and pgens compared to my large expansion and 10 t1 factories. Despite this he was able to fly in with a handful of t2 fighters and gunships, probably only 8 units or so total, wipe out my entire air force and kill my com before my tanks could get to him. The gunships are strong but t1 fighters would deal with them, the t2 fighter however is just way too strong.
Fixed that for you. It is mesmerizing how many people still assume a classic tiered systems with escalating unit stats when the opposite has been stated as a design goal over and over again.
I can agree, i think the T2 air factory should be one of the most expensive fastories to get, just for the pure fact of: it's a game ender. If you get T2 air out and the dont have it too or at least have flak you can smile to yourself as you call gg. something so good like T2 air should deffinetly take a hard effort to get, not be cheaper than a T2 bot factory x)
i'm not trying to lead the conversation, i'm curious; if the thought is that t2 isn't a direct upgrade of t1, what's the proposal? t1 has to retain a scout and at least a fighter. would you move the bomber to t2, so t2 = gunship + bomber? but then t1 air has zero ground assault capability. would that be the tradeoff for t2 air power?
T2 should overwhelm t1 in equal cost. You pay more for better firepower, health, and range. T1 should not be hopeless against T2 as it is with the case of air, but it should never trade efficiently vs the t2. T2 is often simply a better, bigger version of it's predecessor. Why on earth would we buy it if it didn't out perform the t1? I have no idea what hole you buried yourself in, but t1 tank vs t2 tank, t1 air fighter vs t2 air fighter, tier 1 bot vs t2 bot are pretty hard core examples of higher tiers being obscenely stronger. They cost more, they have more range, more health, more damage, they are better in every way and serve the same role. If that isn't the design goal then you got a case of monkeys and clowns making decisions. It really doesn't matter what someone says when you can observe what they are doing. When they cut the cost of t2 units to a third of it's original cost, they only made it so much more apparent that a classic tiered system is in use.
imo T2 air should be something that is near nuke-level to get, in a similar fashion with a cheap-ish factory and very, very expensive units
I fine with T2 air factories being low cost to build but they should be the least energy efficient, paying for that savings with a greater need for power plants.
The cost need to be aligned with other factories. T2 air can only be countered by t2 defenses or t2 air. Leaving it so cheap ensures every game will be t2 air rush. First player to lose t2 air factory loses.
The goal has to be to ensure the T1-T2-dichotomy works - then we can go on to balance one layer against the other. Calling for balance changes to remedy the shortcomings in the T1-vs-T2-design is fixing the symptoms while leaving the cause to rot and fester.
This is the root problem. After all we were told that T2 would NOT be simply direct upgrades to T1 but rather complement them in specialist roles.
So why not make t2 air units cost more or make them weaker or buff t1 AA? The cost of the factory is only one factor, why is it the one that needs changing?
The t2 air factory cost is the biggest concern in my thread here because you are guaranteed to get t2 air out before any counter measures can be deployed except mirroring t2 air. As I said in the OP I think the gunship needs X2 cost or half health. Mobile AA is a sad joke. Many factors need to be tweaked to achieve balance, but the factory cost being so glaringly and blatantly cheap relative to the pattern set by all other factories is very hard to understand. Also, factory cost being brought up to match the other factories increase (or other factories brought down) will single handedly bring a greater form of balance to the game. T2 air rush is so strong because it can be done blind and finish before there is a chance to counter it with anything other than mirroring it. I take the approach as fixing the biggest issues first and leave the polishing till last. Individual units can be the issue after the factory itself is dealt with.
Peregrines are the most blatantly broken issue (although the health of all T2 air should match T1 so that ground AA is good for something). They completely invalidate hummingbirds. Remove them.
Let them try to tweak them first. They are too good I agree, but how early you get them is a deal breaker too.
