Classic Metal Map VS Metal Planet

hate to get side tracked on this topic but...

balancing would be a waste of time considering the lack of units and having no feedback to bounce the good and bad ideas off of. Scathis is doing it a good time that will lead to "final balancing of the game" where unit pathing and major technical errors were holding back units. {tank cannon turn rate//leading of units//commander having bullet locking.

and with your argument that

leaving the planet you are on to rush towards the metal planet is not using the map better, its a game choice that isn't really a choice anymore. It's about a race. and races are no fun in strategy games. Does Chess force you to rush towards the middle of the map? No, its not a very fun "choice".

Once again - I'm sorry for the mentioning this beloved Starcraft universe here, but I acctually like the idea of metal planets being metal-free spot anywhere planet. And (I'm proud I can use that word against someone for the first time) I'd say that arguments such as :

&

are arbitrary ! Here's why:
In SC2 there are sometimes high yeld mineral, represented by yellow cristals. They give more money per trip. They are giving you advantage. Ofcourse it comes with the price. Normally those spots are harded to defend. They have huge open fields where any1 can jump or land and harras you. So with the metal planets we just have to find some simple and easy, lore wise argument and way to make being on such planet - less pleasent. Maybe they should have some sort of defensive systems? Maybe some EMP storms that would deny any air manuvers (taking away possiblities for orbital aircraft to patrol sky and make it easier for other players to colonize. Maybe power costs would be significantly higher there. I'd say to that idead - approve! This makes harder for Uber to make. It will need more diveristy from players, new way of playing. But we have to remeber that games or not 0/1 there is always a place for luck in games. We can't make this game 0/1 so every one has same chances, same rules, same everything. Good games comes with fractions, balanced - yet compleatly diffrent units. Starcraft is great, great example. I think it's good to take good things from good games and combine them to even better one. There is nothing bad in making game harder.

Just another quick thought. Maybe make "death stars" so that they are equiped in some kind of weapon, that only in the very late game you could make units to penalise it, and thus gain huge metal advatage, but to make such weapon you have to keep in stock tremendous ammout of energy - which can be hard and expensive task?

We have great game which is in beta still. Why not to make such "demands" or ideas - true. Why not to give us some editor or smth to test those and give us a survey - yes or no. This could be much better I think. I would always take a survey for everything. The worse case scenario that I could think of is when we(backers) ask for something and they (Uber/any other company) says "we'll never to this, this is in opposite to our philosophy". Well, I always say that company philosophy is where the money of customers wants to be *



*Please do not disable my account for that

I agree with many others that an unlimited metal planet would be a balance nightmare. However, I still think the current random metal layout is terrible. We already have horizontal bands around the metal world, I think metal planets should have their MEX spaced evenly in a grid like pattern across the planet complimenting the terrain features. Raising or lowering the density setting would increase or decrease the spacing between metal spots, but they would remain very grid like.

Great, now if only we can stop hearing people talk about balance as a counter argument to absolutely anything. I agree, it's an argument for those who have no argument.

Still doesn't change the fact that the first person to get to the metal planet wins.

There absolutely CANNOT be a single all powerful strategy that must be employed in order to win. There must be variety.

If metal extractors can be placed anywhere on a metal planet, the economy boost from metal planets make them into the only viable strategy. That is bad.

I actually really like the current metal placement. Clumps of metal are a good thing. They drive engagements and encourage players to fight over certain areas.

A perfect grid would be a terrible idea. It would be boring, stale, and greatly reduce the amount of strategic decisions that go into a game.

Metal planets already have a planet destroying weapon. What makes everyone ok with that but not ok with mexes anywhere? I really don't understand the double standard

Believe you me, like you, I loved metal planets, converters and brawlers.

Like others have said before, metal planets would make a hugely imbalanced game because your opponent could start on a metal planet while you don't, and you'd end up losing even if you were better because of the sheer amount of metal they have. Energy can't be used in PA to balance the equation like on maps in TA that had part metal, part grass for example.

It's not like TA where energy was actually used as a resource and powered things including radar and weaponry. When you stalled on energy, your production ceased because it was a real resource. Now energy is used almost the same as power ala Red Alert imo. (Only diff eco-wise is that RA never had commander unit to make power stalling impossible) Nothing in PA requires energy as a resource, only metal, so you can stall energy all day every day and still produce, albeit slower. Energy is simply used to power the nanolathe, which is different from actually building units with it as a resource. You use energy in both games, sure, but the mechanics are different so it won't work the same way.

I won't say too much on the subject of metal makers because they make your eco exponential. In PA, metal alone is the limiting function of your base. You can have infinite energiez and continue to fail because having lots of energy doesn't make a damn difference. It's not an actual resource and has no function other than power right now. Without it being a resource, metal makers would be really broken.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of metal makers and believe 100% that it can be balanced when the game's economy is finalized with end-tier energy stations and such, but as the economy in-game is right now, it could possibly be really broken. I've never seen any tests or numbers using PA's economy system, though, so unless someone ninja'd a mod somehow, or Uber did tests with it themselves and I missed it, I have my doubts on how broken it would be with proper balancing.

It's not about the planet itself, or keeping it, it's about the eco it can give you. Eco is almost everything, currently. I say almost because you can pull some ninja tactics like snipes, but irrelevant of last-ditch efforts, without a superior eco, you've all but lost. There needs to be more than just economy, and I'm not seeing it, but I do know PA's in Beta, so I'm watching and waiting.

The pot calling the kettle black. if you want to leave one sentence rebuttals, be my guest. There was more to my post then taking a sentence out of context.

And if you want something to discuss, then explain how its okay for a metal planet to have free placement of metal extractors. compared to other planets in the same system.

On any other "random" world I would agree about the metal placement, but the Metal Planet has an extremely structured pattern with very little randomization. As a result the metal spots stand out terribly against the terrain as ugly deformations.

I would like to see the gameplay for each planet become distinctly different. I would take away air units on planets without an atmosphere (metal and moon), and on metal planets I would make the chasms wider (maybe even let you drive into some), with larger, but less frequent bridges. This would drive controlling choke points with ground units and defenses as the key feature of battling on metal planets.

For comparison, on nearly every other planet the round map and open terrain leave the terrain itself meaning almost nothing. Random clusters of metal points are there for the taking, but only the distance and direction maters, not the terrain. Toss in powerful air units and nearly every map is suddenly identical with little more than aesthetics to separate them. I love "round strategy", but I also love variety.

Read up, I did and I hate repeating myself

guys the metal placement on planets is not an argument the devs have stated over and onver again that the metal planet's will have a different look and placement then the other planets, but that they'll function the same.

I like this idea. I'd suggest some clumps as well, perhaps based on the terrain features such as those diamond-shaped lower-height areas with ramps. The metal slider could still decide the overall number of metal on a planet, and would end up adjusting the spacing between the virtual grid of metal spawns. The trenches could also play in, and the grid might only cover certain latitudes; perhaps the poles and/or the equator are dead-zones for metal spawns.

While we're talking about metal planets, has anybody talked about changing the appearance of the metal deposit "scars" to be more "refined" for the metal planets? It doesn't really make much sense that they would look the same on a sophisticated planet-sized weapon as on a primitive moon.

Ha.

You're wrong.

They do not have a planet destroying weapon.

Uber has stated the metal planets will have "ancient activateable technology" – but we don't know what that is. Rumor wheel speculates that it'll be a death star style weapon, and rumor wheel turned into "fact."

We don't know what ancient technology the metal planet will have. It may be planet destroying. It may not. It may be economy buildings.

What's more, personally I'm against the metal planet having a death star weapon.

I'll invent my own lore here to try and explain it.

Perhaps the metal planet is primarily constructed of an alloy that is not the type of metal our robots typically excel at extracting and using so amazingly efficiently throughout our economy. The scars might be spots where rich stores of raw pure metal (pre-positioned by the planet's original constructor, intended for quick army production), was discovered close to the otherwise largely un-harvistable alloy shell and alloy internal substructure. Someone at some point in this planet's long history gauged those scars to get at these metal stores, which are available to us for the low low effort of building a simple metal extractor. Unfortunately for us, we lack the technology to find more easy extractable areas and/or maybe even if we detected metal under the surface, we cannot efficiently gauge or penetrate this particular ancient alloy.

Edit: not at all to say i disagree (i think you're right, it'd be nice if they were different). Just trying to give the devs an 'easy way out', since i suspect the real answer is that we're stuck with it cuz there are more pressing issues for them to address.

Races can be fine in strategy games. King of the hill gameplay is basically that. A race to take control of the hill and keep it that is.
Even without infinite metal, metal planets might actually be like a "King of the Hill" game if they actually have weapons that can destroy other planets. Of course you might be able to counter a "Death Star" by actually destroying it with asteroids before its' weapons have been reactivated.

Anyway. It seems like a really easy mod to make.
Just let the mexes be built anywhere or include a building that produces a fixed amount of metal.
It should probably even be fairly easy to make that apply only to metal planets as well.

I agree that it shouldn't be a "planet exploding" weapon, but I do like the idea that it'd be a mega-laser. Just as folks have been geeking out on the idea of exclaiming "seventh chevron locked" (not my thing, but that's ok), I would just love to be counting down the final seconds until "the rebel base is in range", "you may fire when ready".

The scenario I imagine here is that the orbits and the main-planet rotation have just now finally brought the 'rebel base' within direct line of sight [at lunar orbital distance], for me to fire the death star weapon, instantly destroying huge chunks of that base.

Sounds like a really fun mod.

I have no computer skills, but I will gladly pay someone to make a mod that adds the imperial Death Star beam operator's voice over to my attempts to activate and fire a metal planet beam

Of course they might not be Death Stars brian, you keep telling yourself that

There are 3 reasons this isn't going to be possible.
1. Virtually impossible to balance with multi-planet starts
2. Metal planets are already planetary destroyers, no need to make them even more deadly
3. It's just kind of a silly idea, I mean, the planet is made of metal and your extracting metal... out of the metal that makes the planet.
"But what about metal spots?" I hear you say! Uh.... underground marked... metal storage facilities... for... repair... yeah.