Concerns About New Orbital Mechanics

First off, what we saw in the internal testing is not final. But it does raise a major concern if it isn't changed.

In the internal testing video, orbital fighters had to be built by fabrication bots.

That is a huge mistake. That means the first player to get an Avenger over the enemy's base has orbital supremacy since Umbrellas can't hit moving avengers.

It'd mean once you lose control of orbital there's no way to get it back.

Simple fix. Make Jmbrellas able to hit moving Avengers and/or make Avengers buildable by the Orbital Launcher.

I do like the new Orbital direction. But Avengers really do need to be build able by the Orbital launcher.

Thoughts?

Its an iterative process, it's beta..

Agreed 100%. that was my first concern too. the other thing I'd like is that orbital fabbers need to build an orbital space station, not other orbital units (I'd qualify the orbital solar power plant as a space station). Then I'd have this orbital space station build other orbital units. The difference between space stations and orbital units would be the ability to break orbit.

Same as the guy above the above guy said.

Dont look into it too much. If you wanted to nitpick something, nit pick the fact that a teleported only costs 1500 metal.

Thoughts? None, I just agree with you. Avengers should be built in the orbital launcher. Maybe post a notion in the unit balance thread. The devs seem to read it closely.

I mean the gameplay, units & balance thread that they created to announce the new changes.

I understand, but Brian is trying to help iterate on this. The new changes seem good for the most part, but he does bring up a good point.

We will have this same problem with subs as soon as they are properly implemented, but units like torpedo bombers have always meant that naval blockades can be dealt with even if they aren't the most cost effective way of doing it. I'm ok with making the blockaded player fight from a weaker position, but there needs to be some way to get out of this hole once you find yourself stuck in it. The positive side of having fighters built in orbit is that players will be forced to quickly gain a small presence in every layer instead of being able to focus on just one. This could significantly change the game for the better, but only if there are ways to fight your way back out of a disadvantage.

I too think that the orbital fighters should be built by some sort of station. Same with the orbital laser. I think it should be orb fabrication -> orbital space station. then the space station can produce fighters and orbital lasers. I also agree that umbrellas should hit moving targets. I honestly think it is a bug that they cant. You can get back orb by building umbrellas in the section you need to control. I also think the advanced radar should not be able to be build form a normal orbital fab, it needs to be built by the orbital space station fab bot (t2 orb fab).
That being said it is a race (space race). Whatever strategy you use you need to make sure the other is not superior to yours. It will always be a race to get orbital. Strong players will always try to get it up before yours or destroy yours so you can't get it up as fast as you would like.

We need a space station that can build avengers faster than the orbital launcher.

And, the orbital launcher still needs to build avengers. Also, we need orbital FRIGATES. Something with longer range than fighters. And CARRIERS that can carry fighters from planet to planet. Adding both of these units will add strategic depth to orbital that isnt there now, and address brian's valid concerns.

Well... You can build orbital units... everywhere. so it doesn't have to be in your base. Unless they completely dominated the orbitial layer with an adv radar and stuff, then sure, maybe you were a little late to orbital.

I though umbrellas could hit moving avengers? I have seen it many times, mostly when using Avengers to distract the umbrella from my orbital lazers.

Another thing; currently in the game the first person to get orbital fighters (assuming umbrellas cant hit them) wins orbital dominance. This is caused by a bug/ simulation feature where by Avengers shooting at an Avenger coming up from the orbital launcher will destroy the orbital launcher.

I think it is questionable to have orbital fighters at all. Orbital being simply Air 2.0 doesn't seem that interesting, which has been discussed many times over. Have a slow moving orbital fortress or anything, but not just the same fighters but on the orbital layer.

I like the idea of a space station, having additional fabbers in space seems to add a lot to micromanagement... and you need to be able to defend against incoming orbital fighters... you need to be able to launch them into space from the station...

It is questionable until you think about where the game is going. you will need to have some sort of attack unit on gas giants and that is the orbital fighter.

I don't know about frigates but I do like the carriers idea. I don't think fighters and solar arrays and maybe even radar sats should have the capability to go to other planets by themselves. I think we need a more costly unit to carry those to other planets. The carrier mentioned above should do the trick nicely.

^ I completely agree.

It should be expensive enough that it is still cheaper to send a lander with some fabs and build a gate.

But not more expensive than halleys or nukes.

I have really no idea what the gas giants will be like. Doesn't seem that exciting of an idea, if it is just the same game but only on the orbital layer. But we'll see.. attack unit doesn't have to be orbital fighters, one can attack with slow moving orbital fortresses surely too, or whatever else should one come up with.

Hopefully gas giants will be used as a sort of massive gravity well that can be used to speed up transit times between planets.

^ completely agree

I do like the idea of a fortress but that could really mess up balance on other planets if it could be built there also. If we could have a orbital tank/ship like unit on gas giants then that would be nice. however it is still to far out too say what they are planning to have there. I do remember them saying that you will be able have gas mining structures there or something of the sort.

back to the topic at had..
I think that we would need a orbital space station that is built by the orbital fabers and can produce fighters faster than a orbital launcher because you don't have to pay for the rocket to get them up to the orbital layer. as I said above I don't think fighters and solar arrays and maybe even radar sats should have the capability to go to other planets by themselves. I think we need a more costly unit to carry those to other planets. The carrier mentioned above should do the trick nicely.

also does anybody know if they are working on the low gravity transports like seen in the kickstarter trailer? (going from the moon to the asteroids)

We need asteroids first m8....

I think just leave Avengers as a launchable unit is a fine enough fix. You can even make them more expensive to be built on the ground, reflecting the economic cost of the rocket.

we already have asteroids you just use the moon biome and make the radius smaller...

As far as a simple fix you are right. However I am talking about the long run.