Read this before you ask for game/balance changes

*update 2/12/2010: new items in red

Here are some interesting changes made recently to the PC that might, repeat might, make it over to the 360 version. I say might because some of the balance changes might be specific to the PC. Sooooo if you are asking for balance tweaks already implemented on the PC, just wait. More than likely we will get it once they can update the 360 version.

Adjustments

• Altered how grapple victims are found making it easier for larger classes to have a successful grapple
  added separate audio volume sliders for Voices, Music, and Effects
  Added Blitz Ready button
  Added a cooldown bar in the HUD to reflect the status of Gunner or Tank thrusters
  Added New! mascot head icon to Career Milestones when there is an unseen ProTag in that milestone
  Colored death UI to match the players team
  Players will now earn different Bot Kill Streaks when killing bots without dying in Crossfire matches
  Players no longer receive bonus juice at the start overtime or when they respawn in overtime

Balance Changes
Assassin:

• Reduced damage of Assassins Dagger and Sword versus Turrets
  Decreased juice gain from damage done by Assassins Dagger and Sword

Assault:

Gunner:

• Increased damage done by Gunners Grapple at level 3
  Gunners Grapple Skill now turns into a throw at level 2.

Sniper:

• Reduced the duration of Sniper Trap Freeze against players.

Support:

• Decreased the amount of damage a Firebase takes while its deploying.
  Decreased the recovery time of level 2 and 3 Airstrike.

Tank:

• Increased recovery time of level 2 and 3 Tank Charge
  Decreased damage done by level 3 Tank Charge, knockdown and stun is unchanged.
  Reduced damage of Tanks Jet Gun versus Turrets

Misc:

• Increased health of Shave Ice Turrets

Again, this does not mean that all these changes will make it to the 360 version, but if you are asking for one of the above things, Uber is obviously aware and are testing it on the PC. I will update this thread each time Uber makes balance changes to the PC.

Re: Read this before you ask for game changes

The pc beta seems to be a great opportunity for Uber to test many balance changes quickly and relay what is appropriate for the 360 version in one larger patch (or perhaps next DLC?). I imagine most of these changes will be implemented but there are a few that are definitely pc-specific. The adjustments to the sniper rifle's clip size is one such adjustment (due to mouse aiming). The cooldown for Gunner and Tank jump jets is also likely a pc-only adjustment from what Ekanaut said in another thread.

It is kind of fun to be on the cusp of all of these changes. I've started doing summary + discussion videos for each of the patches after update 4. I'll have a video on update 6 done by tomorrow night.

I was about to say something and how I hope they don't nerf assassin dagger and sword damage but then I thought about how it should need a team to destroy a turtle base
Please don't change the tanks jet gun cause tank gains juice terribly slow

All of the balance changes are f'n awesome imo.

Great thread as well.

The tank's jetgun was hardly touched. Its damage against turrets was taken down a tick but that's all. Also, tank juices fast against bad players that build plenty of laser blazers :roll:

I got this really nasty feeling Assassin is gunna end up being really sucky...and this saddens me to think about.
They already are a friggen piece of glass even when juicing.

I also dont see anything about the stutterstep being fixed, or even the smokebomb jump issue resolved. Lag causing a lunge to not even move more than a foot or two, if you move ive floated in the same spot doing the lunge move and got shot in the face.

I like some of these changes but a few need to be worked on. I feel that the cooldown on support airstrike is in no need for a nerf, if this is to stop spawn camping then the spawns should be fixed....just sayin.

Needs more work before any changes are implemented over to the Xbox

So just what is supposed to be the Assassin's job, huh? She's no good at hitting good players and she needs juice to have any kind of real force. She's only able to destroy turrets when they are left completely unattended. I'm seriously getting the impression that Uber doesn't want the Assassin even in the game when they make her incapable of doing anything but a lucky back-grapple with a sword.

I feel we have to say this everytime there's a change. Don't jump to conclusions, stop thinking the world is over. Here's a novel idea, actually try playing with the changes. I know, I know, it's crazy but give it a shot.

Edit:
If you still hate it after playing with the change, blame Scathis

And, like I said in the OP, some of these changes may not even make it to the 360 because Uber might decide its not good for the game.

Either way, this is just a post to keep 360 duders aware of the changes that might be coming our way. That way before Poster #125 makes a post like "Assassin juices too much" they will see that Uber is already testing a tweak for that exact issue and then Poster #125 will not make another redundant post.

I can see and understand the reasoning behind Juice reduction for the Assassin - after all, they gain so much from the pick-up's in the middle that they could easily juice up within moments. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind the decrease in Assassin's damage to turrets, but it would mostly depend on the details there.

Such as how much of a reduction is being enforced, as well as on what level turrets are most affected. So I'm, sadly, ridding the fence - and it's quite painful to my junk.

Hopefully there's some notes about plans to at least address the effectiveness of the Assault. That class can be super bothersome with its bombs, alone - but maybe that's just me not knowing enough on how to properly counter an Assault with any class.

Whoa, people. Calm yourselves. Slight adjustments are made and people start acting like classes have been hit with the nerf bat so hard they are useless. Take a look at the wording carefully.

Reduced damage of Assassins Dagger and Sword versus Turrets. The damage assassins do to pros has not been altered. The only thing in this updates that hurts assassin vs. pro is the gunner grapple buff (at level 2 it becomes a throw and at level 3, it does 600 damage.. just enough to kill an -unarmored- assassin).

Decreased juice gain from damage done by Assassins Dagger and Sword. Okies, so it takes a bit longer to juice from farming bots with sin. It's not like she can't kill them fast and often enough to juice early anyway. Good assassins will still be some of the first (if not the first) pros to obtain juice.

The motivation behind these adjustments to assassin (and Tank's jetgun) are to make defensive play a bit more viable against smart individuals. It is pretty frustrating to see 4-5 turrets dropped in 10 seconds from one juiced assassin. Sure, you can crowd control juiced players but that requires teamwork--something you won't always have going for you in pubs. And now, teamwork will be more involved in breaking down the defenses of the turtling base.

If you don't believe my argument laid out here, I'll have a video up detailing the balance changes of update 6 tomorrow night. I'd do it tonight but I have to wake up uber early tomorrow to renew some training for work (see what I did there ?).

I admit my post was rather alarmist. I just fail to see the logic behind any Assassin nerfs at all. Her best threat is while juiced, and if someone's actually watching it (say, a Support with a shotgun), she's realistic to answer. Certainly I cannot actually say anything definitive, since I cannot play this on PC. It's just that I'm seeing all of the Assassin's strengths being removed, leaving only her grabs and shurikens untouched. In fairness, there's some I like about the notes.

* Gunner grapple: I'll accept this. I probably will never make a level 3 grab again, but this is how it should be. It was only really useful at level 3 for the throw.
* My airstrikes! They're back! At least, they could be. Likely it's a middle-ground from where it was and currently is. Still, I feel like Strong Bad getting back The Paper.

I have nothing to say about the Tank, since I don't really play it much. The firebase doesn't really need to get extra armor when deploying, but it's good to know you care. Identical sentiment on the ShaveIce.

To Sunny: I did fully read this. The Assassin doesn't care how much damage she does with her sword vs. players. As long as her back-grapple is essentially lethal, it's all good there. Also, what random pubs do is absolutely irrelevant. All that matters is what can happen at the highest level of play, because that is ultimately what any game really is.

LOL. I love Homestarrunner.

On topic... I have always tried to not be an alarmist about any changes, but I can see why people would be after the "slight" nerfs to the airstrikes and dagger lunges in the past. After that, when I hear about a slight nerf, I imagine the worst.

And, I know these examples didn't ruin the classes and they stayed playable, but these "small" changes were responsible for some pretty big changes in how people play the game.

I'm not sure I can agree with you that a game is only what it is at the highest level of play. I play a heck of a lot more with randoms than competitive matches (pc players need to go make more teams for Bacon to play against :3). That is not to say that I don't care about a game being balanced at a competitive level. Certainly, I don't want competitive play to be reduced to some silly or simplistic tactic. But that's all opinion anway.

As far as dealing with juiced assassins, I can only handle them if I can catch them while they are focused on killing the turret. Support can drop them in a handful of shotgun blasts or my tank has the old charge 3 for stun -> swap to railgun for toss away grapple -> assassin's juice has almost depleted -> win. If the assassin is good/more aware, they'll just tear you up with a slash or two and move on to the turret. At least, that has been my experience when I play base defense.

Anyway, sorry if I came off as belittling but there has been a common theme lately of "omg my class is nerfed and is now useless Q.Q" without giving the adjustments a chance. Hopefully I can give a nice detailed explanation and example of exactly how much harder it is to kill turrets and how fast assassin can juice in my upcoming video.

Agreed, the topic of what a game really "is" can certainly be addressed in another thread. I just don't care enough to actually do so. Anyway, I think the best time to offer input on balance is before it actually gets out there onto the console. PC is easy to patch from what I've heard, but definitely not console. We just gotta put up with whatever makes it there, and will inevitably have to do so when the final update comes.

Dude, you're clearly missing the MORE important features:

Added a cooldown bar in the HUD to reflect the status of Gunner or Tank thrusters
Added New! mascot head icon to Career Milestones when there is an unseen ProTag in that milestone
Colored death UI to match the players team

To be honest, I'd rather have those be put in the game the most.

Good point, sir. I definitely think Uber will be listening to the responses here to the assassin adjustments so they can decide whether or not to pass the changes on to console. Is there anything you or anyone else specifically want to see tested in my patch video? I have been told assassins can no longer solo 1.0 rockits with smokebomb + kunai slashing anymore. I'll be sure to show that but otherwise, I'll likely just be toying around in an empty server feeling out assassin's juice building time and their effectiveness against turrets (both juiced and unjuiced).

[Edit]Gentleman: If you want to see the new team autobalance feature, the gunner/tank jump jet changes, and death UI... You can see all that in my Jan 16th patch video (Update 5) . Unfortunately, I forgot to get some footage of Bullseye doing his new animations (includes the worm :lol. Oh well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6xDu9nhIxU

added those to the OP

Oh I like, I like a lot. Ta very much.

A thousand times yes.

No one likes changes when they apply to something they are used to doing. But so far almost all the changes in both patches (original and DLC) have proven to be improvements. Uber has, not surprisingly, shown themselves to be as thoughtful about game balance as they are with design. It is my sincere hope that most or all of these changes are to be incorporated in the next 360 patch. Oh, and a better (read "any") method of balancing teams in the lobby please.

Keep up the great work Uber!