Official "this game is ruined" thread

We've all seen the various threads stating that this game is destroyed. They cite many different causes, but they all agree about the pro players ruining the game for casual/newer players. Rather than just telling them to shut up, I think it would be healthy to have this around for them to vent. I'll use this first post to address the specific complaints.

Pro vs. Casual
I really feel this needs to be addressed first, because it's a core concept to a lot of this. The good players that have been playing for a long time are naturally going to be more skilled. In an almost entirely skill-based game, (there are some luck areas, but they are negligible), the players with more skill are naturally going to be more likely to win. When these players are actually trying to win, they probably will.

Team Balance
I wasn't sure whether I should make this a separate section, since it really falls under the "pro vs. casual" bit, but it also falls under others. The primary reason why you'll see a bunch of all-stars consistently on one side is because they are in an Xbox Live party. A party grouped together is an extremely powerful thing, but you don't have to be an all-star to do it. It's actually one of the strongest things anyone can suggest. Find people you'd like to play with, befriend each other, party up, and communicate. This is far more likely to give you success than just jumping in any old thing alone. All-stars tend to do it because it helps them win (and it's just more fun playing with friends). It works the same way for non-pros.

Spawncamping
As gamers, we all know spawncamping does carry an air of douchebaggery to it. It's extremely unpleasant to be unable to even leave your own doors safely. Players like to be able to walk around a bit before they're mowed down by bullets. Currently, this is exaggerated by the Support's ability to kill players right within their own spawn point (will be addressed by the next update).
Answer: First, be good. Spawncamping is an endgame strategy to keep players from working while the bots naturally finish the game for you. You need to keep the other side from being able to achieve this dominant position. It's like playing Chess with few pieces. It's rather natural to just forfeit at a point because the remainder of the game is not interesting once the other side has effectively won.
Second, pretty much every class has a way of stopping spawn campers. Assaults and Supports can instantly kill with their bombs and air strikes, respectively. Assaults and Tanks have a Charge skill to push them out, not to mention the Product Grenade at least blinding players to be less effective. Gunner is just Gunner, he's got a lot of firepower that gets magnified by deploying. Assassin can cloak to sneak out. Sniper has Flak and can headshot slower classes/players.

Killwhoring
This is a phenomenon similar, yet different from spawncamping. This is where one team has so much superiority to the other that they will intentionally not do anything against the base and just go for kills. Even if the turrets do end up getting destroyed and the shields down, they'll back up and give the enemy team time to rebuild. This is actually for the sake of time. These teams are accustomed to lobbies lasting a long time as they wait for enough players to join for another game to start. Their logic is that they want to play as long as possible, not simply win.
Answer: Take advantage of this. This is actually a blessing in disguise. It's giving you an opportunity to learn things and get better. If the other team has backed off, it's giving you a higher chance to win, and you'll even have more opportunities to learn more general strategies. Yes, they could just instantly win by taking down the moneyball. Don't give me "why should I? They're just going to slaughter us once we're reset again." If you feel that way, then just leave the lobby. The pros are trying to help you, not taunt in your face.

Juice chaining
Some people believe that players are hacking their consoles so that they can just get juice whenever they want it. Totally not true. It's actually really easy to obtain juice when you're trying to do so. First, you have two juice stations, which will really be all anyone needs. If you're doing well, you're probably generating a lot of money, so you can afford to get that juice. You can also use your melee attack on enemy bots to get tremendous amounts of juice. Assassin doesn't even really have to try. Just slicing with her normal sword attack on Blackjacks and Jackbots will get her all the juice she ever needs.

"Glitches"
I'm pretty sure that most, if not all good MNC players are not really hacking. They are taking advantage of the code within the game. If you have issues with the gameplay, take it up with the Wishlist forum. Within the game, it's perfectly legitimate to take advantage of things that seem totally illogical. Uber Entertainment is actively interested in keeping the game balanced. We as players are simply exercising what balance is here. Here are some things that seem illogical, but can be advantageous to you. (This list will be updated as I think of them or they are brought up.)
* Assault beats ice traps. If you are caught in an ice trap, just use your Fly ability to almost instantly get out.
* Gunner/Tank jets: You can use your jets while deployed, even though you're not jumping anywhere. Whether deployed or actually jumping, this will burn anyone they touch.
* Support spawnkill: A known exploit makes it possible to kill players in the spawn room. This will be removed with the next update.
* Assassin lunge-grapple: The Assassin can instantly grab after a lunge. This is well-known and Uber is absolutely ok with it. It's actually the only realistic way for an Assassin to kill a Tank, because even with a sword, she doesn't necessarily kill him with a backgrapple.
* Assassin Smoke Bomb immobility: When using the Smoke Bomb, the Assassin cannot be pushed away. This makes charges and ejectors useless.

Odd arena tricks
Remember that stage in Legend of Zelda: the Wind Waker where you had to push a statue over a tiny ledge on the side? Yeah, that's here too. There are places where players can stand, but look like they couldn't possibly balance a player's weight.
* Spunky Cola: Commonly referred to as the backdoor, this ledge takes you right in to the back of the opponent's base. If you follow the wall to the back of your base, you'll find a small, walkable ledge that eventually leads to a wall blocking further progress. Assaults and Gunners sometimes find this area very useful, and Snipers will occasionally take advantage of their own.
* Steel Peel: The Steel Peel banner itself is walkable, even though you can't see any floor at all. Simply move to the circle on your left side, get on top of the glass walls, and take a leap of faith onto the banner (it's really a short distance).
* Grenade III: Ordinarily, the Sniper cannot snipe at the moneyball here. However, he can position himself at the ledge just at the farthest edge of the base's arch. Another such ledge exists under the spawn area within the middle of the map. Basically, just go out the front exit, turn around and drop down. Relatively easy to access, but most classes will be stuck there for life. There's also a bit that's not so much a trick of ledges but of the overall stage. Gunners and Tanks can get by opposing bot spawn points, jump on the small glass barriers, and have just enough jump height to get on top of the bot spawns. This allows them to get inside the spawn ring without having to get through the sides, though they take significant burn damage.
* LaseRazor: The only odd ledge here has minimal real play value. Assaults can access a small ledge at the bottom of the bot-spawn pillars. This ledge is so low though, that they will not be able to get back without dying, and the surprise factor is not really worthwhile. It does give you a freebie look at the Bullseye sprite on the Icemen's right side.
* Ammo Mule: This one has no mystery ledges I know, but players with jet packs can move around the walls on the side.

Post reserved for more long-term use as people reply.

Post reserved for more long-term use as people reply.

really wish you wouldnt advertise this. many people look through the forums without joining, ask rev or hudson based off their guides.

It's currently in the game, and we all can only benefit from increased knowledge. I'm pretty sure it's likely to get patched, but as it stands, it's a part of the game. I'll even take advantage of it in the tournament if the opportunity presents itself and I feel it will maximize our chances of winning (also assuming my team can actually get together for a match).

A player should use any tournament legal move available to him that maximizes his chances of winning the game.

This game is ruined because you made this post.

/sarcasm

:lol:

I doubt you're going to need 180,000 characters reserved.

Very good post!

For everybody posting in this thread: Please keep it civil! Teams vs. Randoms is always a hot topic in games with a competitive community. No matter which side you are on, please try to respect the other players.

Organous, pls remove at least the detailed description on how to abuse the Support spawnkilling.

If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin', AMIRITE?! :roll:

I'm pretty sure that using your jetpack while deployed isn't a glitch. I remember Scathis using it against me while I was trying to melee kill him during Dev Night. I also don't think that the Assassin using her smoke bomb to negate large amounts of damage and charges is a glitch. I could be wrong though.

As far as the teaming and pub stomping goes, I have stopped playing with more than three people at once just because the parties tend to get very loud IMO and the game isn't fun without at least some resistance.

I removed the description of how to spawnkill with the Support after talking to Eka. It's an exploit and will be fixed as soon as possible on the 360. It won't be patched any faster because everybody knows how to do it, it will only lead to more people abusing it.

Jumpjets and smoke bomb are intended as far as I know.

There are a ton of great games going on, we're just not in them.

The problem is how much a single "pro" can affect a round. Like it was said above if a single all-star within a group of non all-stars wants to win the round they probably can, they can also rack up 5-10x the kills as anyone else in the game. Add a second all-star on that team and now they will win every round without trying and the other team will start dropping during the round. Add one more and the games will not last longer than 5 minutes and people will quit constantly.

With how much sway a single person can have on the game, it NEEDS to have better balancing. I can't see it being to hard averaging out the K/D's after a round and re balancing a team, or having something in place to keep it from stacking a team full of 90s vs a team of 20s or putting all the allstars on one team.

I also think most of us here have gotten way more out of this then we paid for and we should just move on and pass this game on to a new generation.

Ill pass this game on to the net generation when EKA and Scathis come to my house and make me breakfest. As far as the whole pub stomping, I have yet to play a game where there wasn't any of this. Simple fix though, exit the game join a new lobby. And dont tell me there are none because i usually lobby hop(leave after every game to let ppl enjoy the game) when im on my own and I can go about 2 hours of doing this without running into anyone from the fourms. This game is fine, has some bugs but so dosn't everygame....ever. Keep up the good work Uber!

You know what's really ruining this game? RROD...oh wait, that's just ruining the experience for me.

It sucks that I can't even pop in for a quick game without my XBox spazing out on me and shutting down. Haven't played in what feels like a month, now - though it probably hasn't even been a full week, yet.

But to the actual topic at hand: the thing that's just ruining the game experience for the new players is the lack of team balance. Like th3cozy said, a team can get slammed with all of the All-Stars against a team of lower leveled players that are either new to the experience or aren't very skilled and can effectively shut down the entire game leaving a sour taste in the lower ranked players mouths.

As for the spawn-camping, I think that's only problematic when it's a clear cut issue of the opposing team simply kill farming through this tactic versus holding position to quickly, and effectively end the match. A few players on the ring of the opposing team's spawn camp/helmet is okay if the rest of the team is focused on ending the match via destroying the moneyball, but if the entire team is simply camping the spawn doors and focusing on getting as many kills as possible, then it's clear their motive is to lengthen the game and inflate their K/D[R] figures. Either example can sour a new players experience, but the second one just seems more egregious as it's simply pulling away any opportunity for the opposing side to even fight back.

What's also hurting the game, in my opinion, is the extremely high difficulty-curve this game has that can't be addressed by the game creators and relies heavily on the community. New players need to be told how to get better via these boards and the helpful strategy guides placed here, and if experienced players who are pub-stomping don't relay this information then they're not helping the community, only hurting it. After all, if new players don't feel there's any way for them to actually improve and become competitive against these same players then they're likely to stop playing - if the community numbers begin to dwindle then there won't be much of a game to come back to and play in the future.

You forgot the crippling frame rate that is experienced sometimes during overtime or on spunky. I can deal with any other issue in the OP, but when my game slows down to the point I can no longer move or aim, that is what genuinely frustrates me.

Unless, if I might be so bold as to suggest a hypothisis, this fine gentleman is as verbose as the portrait he uses to represent his forum persona is to be taken at face value. Then it can be safely assumed that he is a true wordsmith, and shall need every character available to him to properly express his theories and opinions in a manner befitting his wise nature.

Why do I love reading everything you write???

Because I'm a sexy goat of a man.

Want to write my college applications for me?