Commander Explosions

sorry if this has been mentioned before, this is my first time actually visiting the forums. i had a poke around before posting and it didnt seem to exist

would it be possible to have commander explosions be an option you can turn on and off in the settings for each game? i certainly wouldnt want the mechanic removed entirely, but being able to have a game without the worry of commander bombing now and then would be very much appreciated

This might be a nice option to have. It should certainly be possible IMHO. If it not in the options on release, it might still be possible to create a mod. Someone in the modder section of the forum might be able to help you further.

To be fair, you only have to worry about it in team games, hopefully they'll take some of the same steps they took in SupCom to reduce the impact of combombing.

Mike

Well, the problem i have with it is mostly related to small maps. the best strategy on a small map is generally to make a power generator, mass extractor and a factory, then walk your commander into their base. they either stand and fight, killing your commander, blowing up their base, or run, letting you kill their whole base. in the supcom LANs me and my friends have, we eventually settled on some gentlemens rules, agreeing commander bombing early game kills the fun. though i still like the idea of being aggressive with the commander early on. trying to essentially tower rush them, build factors right next to their base and such.


asking for a mod is a good idea. i would still much rather an official toggle option for it at launch, as it makes life a bit easier, but if all else fails that is a good idea

Well unless your talking about un-patched Original SupCom it shouldn't be an issue really, ACU Deathblasts no no damage to other ACUs and only a small portion of the Damage to structure(I forge the exact percentage) and heck, even Overcharge isn't that effective against bases, it only deals 250 damage if I recall correctly.

These are the kinds of things I think Uber needs to look into for team games in PA.

Mike

Comm bombing is a result of more factors than a mere blast wave. It is also a direct result of having high health, low build power, weak starting turrets, decent move speed, and a powerful free long ranged weapon. All these factors push the Comm away from home defense and towards the front line. If the Comm is going to be a front line unit, then Comm bombing isn't a big step beyond that.

I see com bombing like cheesing in SC2, it is annoying when it works, but you can adapt tactics to survive it.

Ex. Have few fabber assisting your com, then when they go nuclear, you will survive, they lose a com, you lose a portion of your base. And now you have an economic advantage for the rest of the game.

In a way, I miss the TA rules where one commander explosion would always destroy any other commanders in range. And the D-gun would insta-kill another commander. I didn't do "gentleman's rules"; I did "Mutually Assured Destruction" -- if I saw your commander anywhere near my base, I would D-gun him and kill us both.


Personally I think it's just one more reason you should avoid playing on tiny maps. The other reason is that due to maps being randomly generated, the odds of getting screwed by an unbalanced map are a lot higher as the map gets smaller. I start with 3 good metal spots, you start with 1 because two of them are in crevasses or just plain aren't there. I get a good patch of 5 right near me, you don't. I win! pwnt. trololol.

Tiny maps work in SupCom and FA because they are hand crafted and generally mirrors. You both get the same start conditions. In PA you never get this. You're better off sticking to bigger maps where different starting conditions are more likely to get washed out and, incidentally, commander rushing is almost never a thing that happens.

Yeh, dgun was lots of fun. I am hoping they implement that back in.

Nothing like a Krogoth smashing into your base and you sneak up with ya Commander and DGun it...lots of fun

It's already in, eh? It's just very unintuitive at the moment. You need to manually select the attack button from the menu on the right and then left-click your target. Also you need to be in range. The range for the Uber-cannon is about half that of the commander's normal range.

The 'Uber' cannon doesn't possess anywhere near the destructive power that the D-Gun represents. It really doesn't compare.

TA: Get within sight range. Press D. Click on a target. Target is vapourised regardless of what it was.
PA: Get really close... much closer than sight range. Click on a target. Target is sometimes killed... sometimes tickled. (Depends on the target)

If they take this route I'd complain about inconsistent graphics and damage types. A massive screen shaking explosion should deal a lot of damage to everything. If they want to make the explosion insignificant then the graphics should reflect that. Also why would it deal massive damage to units but not structures or commanders?

It sounds like a poor compromise between what is cool and what is good for gameplay.

Then what would you suggest to be done about combombing? It can be particularly harmful in team games where there are extra commanders. A "Poor compromise" it might have been, but it worked.

Mike

Make the explosion deal significantly less damage to everything and change the effect to reflect this. Visuals should align with mechanics.

yes, i realize there is nonsense involved with small maps. they certainly dont work as a default. but it is nice to play a small map now and then, with lots of aggression forcing low tier units and such

i am not a fan of the mutually assured destruction side of things. simply being able to be aggressive with the commander, build some proxy factories, maybe a few towers and such is really fun for me, but these immediately devolve into commander bombing, either me bombing them because it is just strictly better, or them bombing me. where as i want factories rallied to the enemy base, commander pushing the front forward with towers while tanks roll by him and such. which is why i think a simple toggle for commander explosions, or how extreme the commander explosions are is the simplest solution

(sorry about the double post)

Early game is probably the most complex part of any RTS. An enormous number of features feed into Comm bombing, and to explain them all is to pretty much design the game single handedly.

Or you could just remove the genre defining explosion, because working with unusual circumstances is hard.

I really don't think the current commander explosion is overpowered. The exploision is rather small and a commander is a much better fighter than a nuke.
Yeah you might get a few factories and powerplants by combombing but now I can just push out, keep repairing my commander and kill anything you send against it.

it isnt so much about whether it is overpowered or not, but rather how it changes the dynamics of the game. it makes it very difficult to be aggressive with the commander, because nine times out of ten if your commander is right outside their base building towers, you might as well walk a bit further and combomb

90% of the games i will be playing are going to be big macro games on massive maps where this doesnt matter at all. the idea is it is nice to change things up now and then. i really like the idea of proxy factories and towers with the commander on the front both building and fighting. that sort of ww1 trench warfare slowly grinding the line forward isnt really possible when both sides have the option to blow up near all the others base

again, i like the big commander explosions, but i think giving more options to play the game in different ways is always good

The commander is worth more alive than dead. That were my main point.
I am no stranger to starting the game with nukes. Both teams will have an even number of nukes. I even made a thread about it:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/starting-the-game-with-a-nuke.53583/