Double the cost of orbital. Maybe triple.

And my lesson is...never post in frustration!

I admit I did not consider this properly at all. You are completely right. Close thread please, discussion OVER!

@KNight Both instances seem redundant to me good sir...... your ideas eliminate the need for t1 or t2 ground radar....IMO

E

No sir I believe there are plenty of ways now to crack a turtle, mainly establishing a small fob is usually the answer and constant harassment. Could there and should there be better ways and better balance added to make it simpler??? Yes...... I'm saying a quick dash to cheap orbital creates a gigantic turtle scenario

I think we're in violent agreement re: turtling. There -are- plenty of ways to crack a turtle, none of them hard, but I think they all share a common trait that makes them 'boring' (or at least less strategically deep): you build more stuff than the turtler by having a better econ. I say this because the alternative to 'build more stuff than the other guy' is 'build stuff that trades efficiently with the other guy's stuff'.' The game doesn't have T1 units that trade efficiently with static defenses right now (though we may see some in the future).

I think everyone agrees that encouraging turtling doesn't make for compelling gameplay. But a quick dash to cheap orbital only encourages turtling if cheap orbital is unbalanced. Every solution on this thread so far boils down to 'balance orbital units differently.' Yours does so by making them more expensive. Others do so by making them even cheaper, and weaker to compensate. Both could address the problem - it's just a question of which method makes the game more fun.

Yes balances are the major issues atm. This wonderful debate is mostly speculation and opinions none of us know what uber will throw at us next.

I must say that to me making orbital available early makes a lot of redundancy.......

No, they really don't.

In the Orbiting example Ground Radar is still needed for constant in and overall awareness around your base, an Orbiting Satellite can't do that.

In the Non-Orbiting Example the Satellite doesn't provide a large enough radar range to replace Ground radar economically compared to Ground Radar.

Mike

I think this is being approached from the wrong direction.

The problem is not the orbital cost, it's how hard it is to attack a fortified planet. That's all.

This tactic should result in a resounding defeat, you are basically giving up most of your economy and starting over on a different planet.

exactly they don't do the job like ground radar does because it does it better at the stage you are trying to implement this Sat...... redundant!!

No, because you can't use ground radar right outside an opponent's base, he's not going to let you do that.

Just because Ground radar has a larger Radar Range doesn't mean it obsoletes anything with a smaller range.

Mike

I figured it out Mike!!!! What you speak of is what we from the ta universe call a radar plane!!! ;P

And they don't make ground Radar obsolete do they?

Mike

No my friend they do not but they fill the rol of e your early orbital requesting.

And what if the Air units provided Vision instead?(as it should be for Early T1 Scouting units) Now not only are they differentiated from Ground Radar but also Orbital Scouting.

Also considering that once you bring down the Cost for Orbital to be more in line with the other Factories suddenly it's not a case that you will always have an air factory already and Early Radar Satellites might make up the Bulk of your scouting force.

Mike

Well we can agree to disagree because I still see it as totally redundant,