Metal Planets - Should Metal Extractors Be Buildable Anywhere?

i want mex everywhere metal planets once spawn planet choice has been implemented.
90% of players will choose spawn on the metal planet. they then get subjected to constant fighting between themselves. others that dont choose the metal planet get to expand unhindered till they can drop an asteroid on the metal planet.

Yes. Well done. You have a basic concept of how the game works. This is also true in a scenario with 'energy deposits'.

This is funny. By the logic in these two states you made, Uber should remove metal deposits altogether as they are subject to 'probability theory'. Either that or remove the map generator and ship with a few hand built mirror maps.... which would be lame.

Yep, those 3 power plant models are sure going to blow the budget..... (sarcasm).

It was an example. It was meant to illustrate how a player MIGHT want to allocate a limited pool of energy. I'm sorry your lack of imagination has let you down here. And by the way, the balance of the game is not final yet so your calculations of energy consumption are meaningless...


Now, stop being a troll, jurgenvonjurgensen. You've made your point. You don't like metal extractor spam and you like energy generator spam. Good for you! Let the rest of us discuss our own ideas in a constructive manner. Thank you.

Sorry, double post.

While I understand that it makes the game immensely broken, I chose yes only because I missed the over-the-top madness that you get from a full-metal map in Total Annihilation. It's essentially sanctioned resource cheating, and I could do it in no other game.

I was disappointed to see that this was not the case, and I'd love to see it at least as an option. I can see this as a good demonstration mod for Uber to release to show off PA's modding capabilities.

To their credit, some TA metal maps do try to place limits on the overabundance by constraining the metal area with water, forcing players to manage their usable space more efficiently. Perhaps full-metal maps can only be implemented on tiny asteroid-sized bodies, so while enticing, they're easy to change hands or destroy entirely.

[I'm not allowed to post images as a new user, apparently. "Moronic Metal Maze" is the map I want to show here.]

The above map isn't official but there is a similar maze one in the expansions. It didn't work in practice because the pathfinding AI failed miserably there, but you could see the potential.

That said, I do like Devak's idea of an abundant grid.

If it's not going to work very well multiplayer wise it should logically default as no, at least in multiplayer. But even then it should be possible to enable it if you want to just go mad with friends or single player.

TBH:
still a "GOD PLEASE NO".

I don't really want to join a game and be forced to look at every single possible option, especially ones with such far-reaching implications.

Going with a geometric, evenly spaced ring distribution of metal spots is FAR better.

Thanks for all your inputs guys, seems from that this is a pretty divisive issue.

Ultimately the presence of a TA style metal planet in a system seems to introduce no more imbalance than a larger, more resource rich planet in a system, so it seems the question comes down to whether players enjoyed the TA style metal maps.

While many of you have mentioned it being an option, as some have pointed out there needs to be a default option.

If we can't ultimately agree on this issue, would a good compromise would be an increased number of metal deposits on metal planets, in geometric rather than random locations as suggested by Devak, and with altered models (some sort of access shaft) to make sense conceptually as suggested by Ortikon?

Another option is for Uber to include an example mod which performs exactly this function and can be enabled when creating a custom match as suggested by Fixception. I'm sure a "no-mod" filter will be present in the final release for those who prefer vanilla play.

Maybe they should make multiple catergories in the server browser: like vanilla, cheatmode etc and then make it optional for the cheat mode, but not in vanilla.

Hello everyone

I would say no to the TA style ability to build metal extractors anywhere. I think metal should always be a resource that encourages conflict and is valuable, and like others have said I don't want matches on metal planets to be who can spam rows of mexes fastest.

Picking up on some earlier posts ideas however - I like the idea of metal storage deposits (only visually different) being in organised rings around the planet, or highly concentrated metal patches (which would be harder to do on more organic planets) which players start equally far away from and could lead to a king of the hill style gameplay. TA had this on metal planets with geothermal vents.

This please! It would be great for sandbox.

You seem to have forgotten what you were arguing. You were arguing for the removal of energy altogether here. I assume from the fact that you have instead offered a completely irrelevant response that you concede that energy as it is still serves a strategic purpose.

False dilemma. That it is already a problem doesn't mean that making the problem worse is not a disadvantage of your proposition. Also I note that you sneakily deleted sections from those quotes which pointed out how much worse things will be under your proposition due to energy being more susceptible to fluctuations in supply. I take it that because you refused to address them and used underhanded formatting to disguise this fact that you are unable to address the problems this raises and admit that your idea is unworkable.

That's three units we can't have doing something useful.

I know it was an example. It was a flawed example because never in the history of TA or SC has spending a significant fraction of your energy budget on radar been a viable option and nor will it be in PA regardless of what balance changes are made in the future. With PA's economy, the ratio of energy consumption to mass consumption is fixed, at 1:100 at the moment. There is no way to "allocate a limited pool of energy" because almost all of it goes on construction at a fixed ratio.

Oh here we go. And you've reached the stage of losing an argument on the Internet where you claim that your opinion is correct because it's an opinion. If you cannot address the problems your position generates, it is wrong, regardless of who likes what.

Guys, I really appreciate your input on this topic and I can see that you are being logical in your arguments but some of you are coming off a little aggressive, let's try to keep this friendly

Jurgen, It appears a reasonable percentage of players enjoyed the experience of metal-extractor-anywhere metal maps, how would you feel about it being a mod included with release by the developers? It seems to me that the players who wish for metal mania are also those who would use the custom game rather than quick match function anyway.

And what are your thoughts on the other suggestions by Devak and Orticon?

Your arguments are nondescript at best. You haphazardly slap words together with naught but nihilistic disregard for compounded thought. If you're going to flounce around with your recondite preamble while still failing to deliver anything of substance, I suggest you revert back to your monosyllabic anacoluthon and leave the effulgent to those who have the gumption for follow-through. I have little patience for mediocrity.

Translation:
"Blah blah, rarely used synonym, blah, witty finish." Congratulations, you're very clever AND full of it. Stop trolling.

Back on topic:

The long and short of it is that the poll results (at the time of posting) are 50/50. I think that pretty much speaks for itself and advocates an optional setting.

If not, I'm sure a mod will take care of it. I remember this problem in TA spring, and I believe I remember how it was solved; maybe the same logic can be applied. Will look into it once we get the server files.

Concession accepted.

Oh. You're one of those. Okay, you want to throw down, lets go.

Your argument - however valid - is based on opinion like you said not a few posts ago. You're at a stalemate; people will agree with you - or not - depending on how they like the game to be played. People go on and on about TA this and SupCom that, and while the underlying principles are the same, the game is already pretty damned different.

Moreover, you are accusing people of falling back on default arguments because they're opinions but I don't see you addressing any of the opposing issues.You have more interest in insulting a persons argument rather than the argument itself.

The long and short of it is that Uber is a business, and will likely cater to the largest demographic they can appeal to rather than purists. Alternatively, they will leverage a modding community thats already fairly active to do so. I can predict with near 100% certainty that we will be able to see all metal planets with the ability to place MEs anywhere. Why? Because I've already committed to do so.

Why would I do that? Because I have fond memories of turtlefests. I remember raising massive armies with the 5k unit cap, and two turtling players duking it out. Now sure, thats not the only type of game that I like to play; I'm not some automaton, the type of game I like to play varies. As I said, PA != Supcom/TA, and I want to see all metal planets with Mexes anywhere because I'm curious to see what it would be like with this engine.

Unlike yourself, who seems adamently single-minded and narrow-visioned, I like a little depth in my games. An infinite metal supply on a super tiny map? Yeah, that'd make for some good fighting.

In short: Don't mess with me princess. I'm smarter than you.

Oh look, you're missing the point massively again. I'll spell it out for you since apparently despite claiming to be intelligent you are incapable of making even small leaps of inference. You made a post saying "Don't knock it till you've tried it." I have tried it. I'm knocking it. Everyone else who dislikes metal planets has also tried it. It was even in PA at the very start before metal spots were implemented. You're writing long-winded nostalgic defences of an irrelevant position.

Perhaps if you'd actually been reading my posts you'd know why this line is irrelevant, but it's not my job to educate you, so go back and see what I've said previously in this thread.

This is the Internet. You think this line makes you look like a badass, but really it only makes you look like you're trying too hard.

this is a great idea. This should look better on a unnatural planet.

yes, optional would be great.

a match on a big metalplanet with unlimited mass will be very funny

Jurgen, we understand that you've tried metal-anywhere planets and you don't like them. But reading through this thread, and looking at the vote, you'll see that many players have tried metal-anywhere planets or recall them from the original TA and liked them. It makes for a different game style, and you don't enjoy that, but some players do. Any further debate seems pretty meaningless. You can't change what people enjoy.

Instead of continuing in this vein, and before anyone gets too angry or offended, let's pursue some solutions: how would you feel about metal-anywhere on metal planets being a mod included with release by the developers? It seems to me that the players who wish for metal mania are also those who would use the custom game rather than quick match function anyway.

And what are your thoughts on the other suggestions by Devak and Orticon (more metal on metal planets in geometrical arrangements, and altered models to make more sense conceptually)?

making things optional is the easy way out if you can't decide on a common goal.
Don't get me wrong, I like options (as long as everyone is ok with my choices ), but you have to have a strong default, which most people would choose. If you start making options with equal chances you start to split the player pool too much.

just for thread completeness I'm missing the suggestions to make it modable and the xkcd reference.
the best match for the topic of unlimited resources and planet annihilation I found in the whatif no. 13
http://what-if.xkcd.com/13/