Should Navy Going Over Land be Considered an Exploit?

Damn, that sounds like it might work for any unit however?

Care to test with one of the long ranged ships?

That's quite the bug and probably should be discussed. Curious to see if it works with other units as well. Does it do this without radar coverage?

well damn what's the bug tracker on that one, let's spam the hell out of it.

dude wtf? how could you miss my point this badly?

Lemme break it down for you :

Units don't go over cracks! And you know what? When you hit f11 the crack is lined with red indicating non-navigable terrain. Guess what else? Same for water! Yea! Then you look at where that line falls : exactly where the shore is! Wow I think this is going somewhere... It's not possible that the ships cross the red line!!! Period. And in that video we didn't have f11 view but comparing it with my own generated planet and how the red border lines up with the shore I can tell the ships didn't go over that red line, meaning there wasn't even a bug.
So there isn't debate as to whether there was exploit or not....

rather a polemic on was the ship in or out of reasonably shallow water

...and that shallow water should be non-navigable which some people think should be a given is not obvious. I for one dissagre.
I say represented water : navigable. Period. There's a flat ocen when the planet is generated that very obviously sets where that red line is going to be. When the game starts playing and the animations acivate, the water starts to tide in and tide out but that is simply an animation, it does not change where the ship can go! what does? the line! which is fixed! so immagine we're on very flat terrain resulting in very radical tides; if the tide goes high high high, and you ship stops far from it THAT'S NORMAL and if the tide goes low low low and your ship looks like it's on land well f uck THAT'S ALSO EXTREMELY NORMAL

here's a the idea; the ship's not on land it's an optical illusion:

Look. If you need debug tools to know where units can and can't go, then the fault lies with the game for not making that information more clear. Fortunately, IRL offers an amazing tool for finding the difference between land and ocean. It's called a beach, a thin yellow line with seaweed and shells and rocks that separates blue water from green land.

Jeez, don't get so worked up.

I'm pretty sure the problem is that we have differing opinions of what a "bug" and an "exploit" is. You would probably argue that, for instance, when the camera clips through the wall in an FPS allowing you to see the other side is not a bug. After all, the collision was set slightly behind the wall, wasn't it? I would maintain that it's a graphical bug, and that using that to see the other side of the wall (and thus the enemy's movements) is exploiting the graphical bug. Because although your player doesn't "cross the red collision line", he's still doing something that by all standards gives him an unfair advantage over the opponent.

What you can't in any argument say is that the land looked like water. It wasn't a "beach", it was literally about 6 ant-lengths of land. Tide played no factor.

The whole shtick with the tide is completely untrue. There might be a graphical "tide", but it doesn't even come close to covering this area.

One player realized that there was a "Graphical bug" on the map. A "graphical bug" being that while, in the collision code the area was treated as "water", the render treated it as "land". BL realized it wasn't land, and that they could "exploit" the graphical bug. They probably used the F11 pathing debug mode to see the bug.

Call it an illusion or "normal", it's still a "bug". One team exploited the bug. This shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. Though it'll likely be patched in a few weeks, so this whole debacle will have no meaning then.

Yes it did, that's exactly how much the tide rolls in and out. The ships are fuctioning as ordered to. No bug, no exploit either.

And might I state that so far I don't stand corrected on this

because thats all you guys throw back at me "yea the ship looks like it's on land duuuude"

Me seeing through the wall in Planetside 2 wouldn't be a bug either then? And using it to stick my gun through the wall and shoot all the helpless Vanu soldiers isn't an exploit? After all, the game is functioning as ordered to. No bug, no exploit either.

Sarcasm aside, this was the picture I got. I never saw the tide recede past this point. If I see this, I assume that the lower pool and the upper pool are separated. Since they're not, it's a graphical bug -- a defect in the output of the program causing a discrepancy in program logic (the actual collision data, or your "red line") and the user's end experience (the picture on the screen, which shows what clearly seems to be boats traveling across an isthmus). Thus, using the opponent's ignorance of the bug, one team exploited the disconnect and used it to gain an unfair upper hand. Like how I shoot the enemies through the wall.

edit: I still haven't seen any refutation of my analogy. I maintain that it works in the same way as collision errors in FPS's, which are notorious for being exploited bugs in maps.

When you see through a wall in an fps and can shoot thanks to it you gain 5 maybe even 6 rooms, and people can't shoot you back it's so overly advantageous it's retarded, thy has been adubed "exploit", the term may have even been born thanks to fpses. Welcome to a game that actually doesn't suck, even in alpha!

If your ship slightly "looks" like it's a biit further than it should be (when it's actually not (c.f. f11)) that doesn't mean other ships can't shoot back at it, or that it's gained any gamechanging range.
what are we talking about here 10-12meters?


the fact of the matter is : this isn't changing anything, the pings on the radar arn't offset by this, whatever force you want to deal with them with doesn't suffer a malus due to it. (on the contrary tanks will get a better shot)

So appart from "it looks bad" what's the issue?

I'm not sure I understand your point here. That's exactly what I'm saying, I gain progress unfairly. And the enemies can shoot me back, too, the collision on my gun counts as my character. Why is it unfair then? Because the enemy should not need to anticipate guns poking out of all the walls and shooting them through the skull. Ships going over land is the same. Yes, team white could have built naval and even used the same strategy against them. I like to think that they knew about the glitch, but decided not to use it because they were playing an honorable, chivalrous match between gentlemen.

One other thing to clarify.

What else are we to base it off of? I have no way of knowing what the coordinates are treated as in the code. What I see is all I get. That's sort of how computers tend to work. And you're not supposed to use debug mode. It's for getting out of a bug, not finding a bug and exploiting it. edit: woops double post. Sorry about that. :-\

I... Seriously... do... not... get... what... you ... see.. in this

I'm new here and I don't have an opinion on the matter. Just to clarify, however, I do not believe he cares about the fact that the boat is sitting on land as shown in the picture. He cares that the land below the fleet which separates the water that the fleet is in and the water to the south was crossed by the boats, allowing them passage between the two major bodies of water.

To be honest I don't think this discussion is very relevant, everything will change soon.
just my 2c

GalacticCow what do you suggest we actually do? It doesn't matter what you call this 'thing' which occurs in the engine, what would you have us (the community as a whole) do about it?

Yeah I think its just arguing semantics. It's not an intended feature, open up a bug tracker ticket and wait until it gets fixed.

screen shot obviously shows they "appeared" to cross a section of terrain they shouldn't have. It is an exploit, which also changed the course of the game. Does it matter really, no. Though at the same time the game is rather inconclusive as to who should of truly advanced in the tourney. We just have to keep in mind this is alpha and when stuff like this comes up to just shrug it off and make a rule saying if it looks like land dont bring you boats over it, and if you do move em back when the ref or opponent calls you on it.

It didn't change the course of the game. iG defended well with catapults and could have steamrollered BL, instead they left their units idle in their base for ages and then sent them to their death against boats.

not having to build catapults gives extra income, not having to send army to die against boats that are in current location because an exploit does change the course of the game...............common sense man

Yes they had a choice to send hundreds of units across the map to destroy an undefended base and win or send them to their death against boats that weren't threatening their base...............common sense man

i think ships should be able to move onto these extremely shallow areas but the trade off is they get "grounded" and cannot move further.