First of all, sorry if there's a topic on this already up, I searched the forums and couldn't find one. So at the moment, PA is using the TA method of upgrading metal extractors, where, if you want to put down a T2 metal extractor on a metal point, you'd have to reclaim the old T1 extractor, and then rebuild the new T2 one. Supcom introduced the ability to build your T1 extractor, and then upgrade the existing structure later, a system i felt which was a great deal better. Is the plan for PA to stick with the old TA method of having to reclaim/rebuild when you want to open up a metal point for a better extractor? or will we be able to upgrade them? I can understand having to build new T2 factories (even though I preferred how supcom allowed you to upgrade existing T1 factories). and i think it's just a different way of doing it. But in the case of extractors, i feel that having to reclaim your own buildings to get access to the metal points is a very clunky way of upgrading your metal income. Does anyone know what the plans are for this feature in PA?
We've talked about a lot of options for this before, Given the current art assets Uber isn't considering Upgrades(although the SupCom implementation wasn't perfect, a lot of people were turned off by it) but my favorite idea proposed so far is that T2 Extractors would be Built right over top of T1 Extractors, no reclaiming or anything. Mike
Yeah, that sounds like the best option. I'm guessing you're implying T2 Extractos would snap-to and encircle T1? Would that become a single unit? Would building a T2 extractor on an empty point include building the T1 bit?
Those are options, depends on the kind of complexity we can get away with. Maybe something like building on top of a T1 has an 'instant rebate' for the cost of the T1, but it effectively just deletes the T1. Admittedly it's not much different from doing an upgrade, but it might be a bit easier to comprehend from the perspective of new players. Mike
Building T2 on top of T1 is a v good idea, but it has to be of the same size. because in metal maps where someone could start building T1 extractors adjacent to each other. you wont be able to upgrade them because of space. one more thing. what if I want to build T2 directly, do I have to build T1 first then build T2 on top of it!!!. it should allow me to build T2 directly but at a higher cost.
Yeah, allowing a T2 mex built over a T1 mex to essentially reclaim it into the new structure would be the best option. Then you have the advantage that upgrading mexes still requires advanced workers, and you can still upgrade mexes without micromanaging the reclaim or introducing accidental delays before the start of construction. No it doesn't, so long as you allow the T2 mex to be built on its own as well, you can just leave your T1 mexes in place on a metal planet. Problem solved.
Then the unit for the T2 Mex should be a Metal extractor upgrader not a T2 metal extractor. I agree with that idea as long as its not building over but some sort of upgrade thats done manually(not by clicking the mex and upgrading it)
I would rather that T2 mex have the same output as T1 mex but they allow the metal to be used on other planets. It would slow down the exponential economic growth while adding an interesting strategic target.
I'd like to see T2 MEX become somehow different or specialized from T1. For example they could be armored, cloaked or fill an economic niche like the Overdrive mechanic in Zero-K but simpler. To clarify that last bit, Overdrive in Zero-K made your MEX turn excess energy into metal with diminishing returns. That would be useful for players running a big energy surplus and would not totally undermine map control like metal makers.
Yeah, I do like that idea of building the T2 over the T1, i can see how being able to boost your econ buildings without teching up your fabbers to match might not be someones cup of tea. Whatever they go with, as long as it's not clunky I'll be happy.
+1 for building T2 over T1. Supcom's method of upgrading was cool in many ways, but the micromanagement aspect of it was really a pain. I think this would help alleviate that.
Well before you had to individually find upgrade-able mass extractors and time the clicking of each so as not to have too many upgrade at once, not to mention if you wanted to assist upgrading with construction units. With building T2 over T1 you just get one or many fabricators and give them a build queue and there's no danger of overlapping upgrades to bring your economy to a halt.
I don't think the issue with Supreme Commander was not being able to queue up MEX upgrades. When you should upgrade often had more to do with what was going on in game. And you could queue up MStorage rings, which were essentially a T2.5 upgrade. Of course there were plenty of mods that made managing MEX upgrades and the economy in general easier. My favorites were Supreme Economy and MEX Manager. Some mods even automated the entire process based on easily defined conditions. You didn't even need to find a MEX to upgrade one. You could select an available one by tier (or whether or not it had storage surrounding it). What a lot of players took issue with in Supreme Commander was the exponential economic growth (early advantages snowballing into giant leads) and the nuance of knowing when to upgrade, how many engineers to assist and in what order. None of those are being directly dealt with just yet. Although Uber has expressed interest in avoiding those pratfalls.
At the end of the day however upgrades in SupCom required additional knowledge and another set of things to remember, and the MStorage rings themselves were yet another set of micromanagement which I detested yet had no choice but to follow suit. PA is going to be moddable so I say let the modders add arbitrary systems to increase complexity. I'd prefer the simplest path to upgrades whereby selecting a fabricator and upgrading all T1 -> T2 is precisely n + 1 clicks, and ensures the process is queued. There is much to love about SupCom but upgrades and meticulous adjacency bonus planning are 2 things I personally won't miss.
Uber isn't considering Upgrades? Daam thats sad news for me the upgrade mexes on SC/ Forged aliance are kind perfect , T1 to T2 to T3 don´t let you wast resources with the mass storages that give you adjacency. Some one wrote( Supcom's method of upgrading was cool in many ways, but the micromanagement aspect of it was really a pain. I think this would help alleviate that.) Tell me plz you´r joking, only say that who not play moore the 20 games, the engine micromanagement off SCFA are near the perfection and easy to understood! Build T2 mexes over a t1 mexes extractor thats really bad. sry its my opinion so t1 mexes will be for what? Plz don´t forghet that this game has tactical resources for something,don´t kill the spirit.
The micromanagement of manually upgrading many mexes in late game sounds bad, especially when there's literally dozens of the things scattered in many planets. In early or smaller games however...it wouldn't bother me. I would be happy with manual upgrading suggested in some other thread, with engineers building over the lower tech ones. A feature to set engineers to roam the planet and upgrade all mexes in its path might be a good compromise between "fully automated" and "fully manual". food for thought...
