PA Modding: Double edged sword?

While I realize that PA is in alpha, I think this issue can still be discussed at this point. Uber has said that PA will be fully moddable. While I'm sure some (or most) PA gamers like how they can customize PA to "have it their way", will modding ultimately serve to splinter the PA community of gamers when we should be uniting into one large pool of available PA gaming opponents instead?

I can't help but look at RTS games like Starcraft. It was basically unmoddable, yet enjoys a relatively large, unified gaming base to this day (over 10 years since being released). While there are a number of reasons why this is the case, I think the fact that Starcraft was unmoddable played a big reason why its gaming community was not splintered into a number of smaller factions.

Then I look at TA. It was moddable. And so you ended up with a number of TA groups, each promoting their own mod to play (e.g. UberHack). As time wore on and the number of TA players decreased, the challenge in finding online opponents was exacerbated by the large number of TA splinter groups playing their own mods.

So I ask, are we, the PA community, doing ourselves a disservice by asking that PA be fully moddable? Is it worth having PA your way when it may only hasten the eventuality that you might be the only one left playing your own personalized PA?

A valid concern. I've often pondered it myself.

If modding support will be done right there will be few different kinds of mods:

• Client-side mods which doesn't change gameplay and you can install them for yourself. E.g UI-mods or cosmetic-only mods.
• Server-side mods which will only change something on server. E.g custom AI.
• Client-server mods which also need be downloaded (from server probably) before you can connect to server. E.g unit packs or custom biomes.

So if modding done right it won't technically split players pool. You just click on server you want and play, game-server download all you need.

I remember Spring RTS experience, where is not so much people and many different games found. And there never a problem to find game.
I also playing in Mount and Blade multiplayer and modding here is pain in ***, but only because game engine architecture doesn't support it well.

PS: I understand that your concern about players choices and not about about technical problems. But I think player base is pretty liquid if you can try other mods just with one click.

The mission editor of starcraft was extremly powerfull, and enable the community to create maps and mods. Actually the tower defense gameplay is born on starcraft (and DOTA on Warcraft).

I think that, since Uber are basically making the game so it will be moddable, the mods will be as you suggest - easily accessible, sharable, togglable and fluid.

Regarding the Starcraft mission editor, that's not exactly online multiplayer. That's the issue I'm addressing with this thread. Will modding serve to splinter the pool of online gaming opponents if each prefers to play their own mod?

Regarding the ease of access to other people's mods, it still doesn't prevent the fracturing of the PA multiplayer gaming community. Players will most likely stick with their favorite mod and eschew all other mods.

As I said in my first post, I think Starcraft's developers did it right by not making Starcraft moddable. It unified the online multiplayer game base and helped Starcraft remain a viable RTS game (among other reasons) to this day while other RTS games (e.g. TA) have faded away.

Although I expect the official release of PA to be awesome and amazing. I fully expect the mod community to make it even better. Look at what the guys did for FA when creating FAF- constant updates and balance fixes improving game experience and making it both more fun and more competitive.

Having people so invested in your product that they are willing to put hundreds of their own hours into it, including advertising your game and managing their own "sub" community is a bad thing now?

... and are you honestly of the opinion that Modding curtails the lifetime of a game?

FAF is living proof that such an idea is ridiculous.

I'm not debating if modding will make PA the game better. It probably will.

I'm debating if modding will only ultimately serve to fracture the online multiplayer PA gaming community into smaller splinter groups. I think it will and I think it will be to the detriment of PA as a whole from a long-term perspective.

Modding is a lifeblood of the PC gaming scene. If even one amazing mod comes out, it extends the lifespan of your game a ton. HL2 is still relevant these days because mods have been continuously made for almost 10 years now for it.
Starcraft is only so long-lived without modding because it's highly competitive and there's not much else in the competitive-RTS scene.

Isn't PA supposed to be an online multiplayer competitive RTS game?

Or is PA supposed to be a "Civ-in-space" type of game instead?

If PA was trying to be a "Starcraft Killer" then it wouldn't be supporting Modders as much as it already is.

Planetary Annihilation is an RTS. It's not specifically trying to be an "online multiplayer" experience like Starcraft.

No RTS can beat Starcraft and most have stopped trying.

You have a very strange way of quoting.

"online multiplayer competitive game"s can have modding too. Look at CS:S. One of the biggest competitive shooters, but the base game is FULL of mods.

Honestly from reading your posts, it looks like you're trying to find problems where there aren't really any. No game that's ever had modding has looked back on it as a terrible thing

Being a game developer may not make one as much as an expert in English prose as one might think....

The primary issue addressed in this thread isn't game longevity. It's fracturing the online multiplayer PA gamer base.

So are you suggesting that PA is not a competitive online RTS multiplayer game then? If not, then what is it?

I ask questions out of curiosity mostly. It helps that I'm not blindly biased in favor of every Uber decision on PA by having spent $90 on the PA alpha either.

Actually, YOU are the one suggesting that by saying there's a black and white divide between "has mods" and "is competitive". Which is flat out wrong.

So, do you have an opinion or not on what PA is?

I get the impression that it's supposed to be an online competitive multiplayer RTS game. If I'm right, then mods will only serve to fracture any semblance of a unified large PA gaming base (which Starcraft currently enjoys 10+ years after its release).

If I'm wrong about what PA is supposed to be, then there isn't a need for a unified large PA gaming base to begin with.

Define 'competitive'?

But your premise is completely wrong. Mods don't fracture the community. For instane, take Red Alert 2 Yuri's Revenge. Still being modded, still being played. Those players playing those mods - online or not - wouldn't be playing normal Yuri's Revenge online. Or if they would, then they still do so.

Or look at Forged Alliance Forever; it has a lot more players than normal matchmaking (which has three or so games up at a given time, approximately).

You can always deinstall / not load a mod and play the normal game anyway. It's not a binary choice.

Also, could you please quote people the normal way? Your method is, to be frank, annoying and hard(er) to read.

Starcraft 1 is still played 10+ years later because it is a well designed game. Not because there are no mods for it. Look at Neverwinter Nights 2. It is still played on many 3rd party persistent world servers which are all by definition mods many years after Atari abandoned the game.

Some players will prefer a massive free for all game, others will certainly play in coop vs waves of ennemies, some of them will play on a new "Orginal" TA using the PA engine, and maybe some star wars mods...

But it doesn't necessary means that the players won't jump from a mod to another one. So it will not necessary lead to a fracture between players community. Especially if the mods installation are manage by the game and is transparent for the player.

It is more likely the best mods will become standards.

And even fractures happen, who cares ? I mean what the problem to have several pool of player ? Actually a rank system could be also consider as way to separate the players and create pools...

I don t get your issue, sorry

Mods fracturing games only happens when the game itself has a VERY small playerbase, and the base game itself is lacking in gameplay which is made up for in mods.
Which for the life of me, I can't think of any examples.