STEAM

So you are upset that things change over time? Oh boy have I got news for you about how the world works.

You do know that you can just, you know, not buy games that use a development model that you don't approve of right? I don't play f2p games myself for this very reason.

I would argue that the Kickstarter system is far better for gamers than any of the previous systems ever were.

Fair enough. Now take it back

Sorry. Even after a few hours, this is tiresome. I'm starting to just get silly out of frustration. Don't mind me.

That's just you being nasty to me for no reason and rehashing points I've already responded to in this very thread. If I went from Atari all the way to PC gaming, you really think I don't like when things change?

As I've said several times in this thread, I actually am all for the Kickstarter model. But I do believe in drawing a line. I'm not going to repeat things I've said dozens of times beyond that.

So basically you feel the KS Model should stay on KS.

But I don't see the problem in extending the KS model beyond it, that is essentially what Uber has done with Pre-Orders, Upgrades and the Steam Early Access. We are going to receive a better game for it it as well, I doubt Uber would have been able to extend the Dev time if they hadn't.

Mike

I am only being as nasty to you as you are being to Uber and the PA community. And it certainty seems like you don't like change at all judging by your reaction to Uber's alpha testing model and the Kickstarter model in general.

Is that so? Its awfully hard to tell.

Good because I think the rational people in this thread are getting tired of reading your inane posts about how unfair the alpha pricing is when you are clearly unwilling to understand the reasons behind said pricing.

I'm not sure it is the concept of it that is the problem or the structuring of it that is. Most buy-in betas/alphas tend to put the access on the low end of their plans, if not the bottom. Uber didn't so theirs is generally more expensive than comparable ones, such as Star Citizen.

But If I understand mpmumau's point correctly, I agree with it to some extent. Kickstarter works the way kickstarter works, and Early Access works the way Early Access works, they are different systems and their communities have different unwritten rules. They have very similar objectives, and to the distant observer seem very similar, but there is actually very little in common, both in their use, and those who use them.

I've been watching the stories and forum posts around the web and giving my two cents about this whole thing all day, and I'm getting a little physically tired of the debate for now, haha, and I promise you if you really care about my response to that notion, I at least hope it's clear enough in my previous responses. So I think I'll respond briefly one last time and leave it at that, and leave this forum alone to do whatever it normally does.

But basically, the line that needs to be drawn, and not extended "beyond" is the line between an "investor" and a "consumer." Not everyone should be expected to be an investor, and where consumers are concerned, developers, as well as "investors" should be far more gracious to consumers, who do not have any obligation to any game, whatsoever.

If you don't want them to "join your team" so to speak, then by all means treat them like trash, overcharge them, etc., and you'll have as small a community as you deem satisfying to you. But if you care at least about customers beyond the die-hard fans who are willing to invest money even beyond a normal retail price for the hope that a game will come to be, you cannot expect average consumers to make the same commitments of time and money as you would from a die-hard fan/investor.

To make any moves that imply that you DO expect that kind of relationship is the very insult that has set off the firestorm in which we are currently immersed within.

Exactly, you understand my point as I meant to say it.

Your signature says it's all -- you're just a troll, albeit in this case on the side of the company sponsoring this particular forum. Obviously you have no interest in what I'm saying, so why are you reading it an commenting on it? Perhaps I hit a nerve with you? Something that I said that you can't quite deny without insulting me personally?

Wow, just wow... You really just don't get it do you? Buying alpha access is becoming an investor. Simple as that. Its $90. You can get it on Steam if you like.

What on earth made you think that being on Steam meant that PA was being marketed to "consumers"? Early access is by definition not meant for "consumers". Uber does not expect most people to buy the alpha. That's the whole freaking point. It is not for "the masses". In fact they discourage people from buying it by making it expensive.

Your entire argument is based on a faulty assumption.

"Buying" alpha THROUGH KICKSTARTER is an investment. Buying a pre-release, essentially a "demo" through Steam is a retail purchase. Kickstarter is an investment platform. Steam is a retail marketplace. Why is this so confusing to you?

Am I trolling? Maybe I am. Either way you have still not been able to make a single point that actually means anything in the context of the current debate.

All you have been able to do so far is whine and complain about how PA isn't like other games on Steam. Boo hoo.

Show me on the doll where the mean internet touched you.

Steam early access is a beta testing platform, not a retail marketplace. Why is this so confusing to you?

I've made dozens of them...you're just ignoring them as if they never happened, and not responding to any of them directly. A debate isn't a contest of who can ignore the other person the most. I believe I responded directly to your points, so why don't you try playing the game by the rules instead of pretending there aren't about a few dozens responses I've written, often with an effort on my part to be increasingly rational about things?

You're right...that's the newly devised *intention* of the system. But it's new, and you CANNOT deny common perceptions, which are defined at this point by precedent. MOST "early alpha" steam games are, in fact, relatively well-developed games, thus far. PA is the first I can think of, personally, that is (1) SO early and (2) MORE expensive than it's expected retail price.

Aww Antillie you were doing so well, but then you just blew it.

All of them based on the same faulty assumption.

Since they are all based on the faulty assumption that I pointed out no direct response is needed.

You haven't really responded with anything that you haven't already said that hasn't already been disproven. Its not my fault if you keep repeating the same things over and over again because you like to ignore whats wrong with what you are saying even when other people point it out to you.

Lol for the record I thew up the white flag several posts ago -- Antillie just wants my blood.

Nah, it just means that we are now in the bonus stage.

How do you disprove an opinion? Or the opinion of essentially the wider, general gaming community?

Arguing with you is like trying to edit a shitty philosophy text book. I'm not going to get pulled into a Clinton-esque argument about the defintion of "is." Use your obviously keen sense of inference, and you'll figure it out, eventually.