More Strategy: Trees

In some spring games trees/forests can block fire. This added a layer of tactics and strategic depth to otherwise bland terrain.

For example, there is a forest between you and your opponent: while assaulting you park your artillery in the forest and afford it better protection from direct fire. If things go poorly you can retreat back through the forest possibly saving units. How good forest cover is would be determined by tree density, size of tree hitbox and tree HP (likely 1 shot).

I think this would compliment the biome-based terrain of PA well. If you don't like a nearby forest you could reclaim it or burn it down like in TA.

Re: Trees

It is largely dependent on how Line of Fire checks will be done. If units fire when trees are in their way they might hit a tree and damage a friendly unit infront of them. Your units might also hit trees when there are targets to which they have free Line of Fire.
If you wanna try how this works out you should try different games on the Spring engine(Zero-K, NOTA, XTA) where proper Line of Fire checks are done while weapons can be set to either avoid features(trees, rocks, wrecks) or can just fire anyway.

Gameplay wise you might want your units to fire even though trees are in the way as the trees might be destroyed easily while you might not want your units to fire at rocks or wrecks if they take too long to destroy.

It complex both for how it should be handled in the simulation and how it affects gameplay.

Re: Trees: Strategic Value?

It's not really about the simulation, it's more about will trees be accounted for in the simulation. If they get a hitbox and it will be set so that it can be hit, then yes. If not, then no. We'll have to wait for Uber to decide. I would kinda like it, but I guess it encourages micro and therefore Uber won't do it.

Re: Trees: Strategic Value?

i wouldn't call this micro, it's just evaluating the terrain and using it to your advantage. it's akin to using hover units by a river.

that's pretty different from placing psi storms in starcraft and staggering siege tank pushes.

Re: Trees: Strategic Value?

Indeed, it would encourage strategy - macro - not micro, I think.

I'd like it! That is; I want forests, not a lone tree on the middle of a battlefield.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

indeed, one thing that was great about TA was the way tactics evolved as the game progressed e.g. wreckfield trenches

i think forest/jungles/trees could add a lot of similar tactical value

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Shots should not be blocked by trees. The type of weapons and energy levels the units would be using should completely destroy the tree without even slowing the projectile down.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

do u have a gameplay objection to something like OP that isn't trees - say alien metal trees?

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Most shells explode on impact - if something is solid enough to block a shot, it will cause the shell to explode, even if it's only a tree.

Pure Energy weapons are a different matter.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

I voted 'yes', but, I'd prefer it if units surrounded by trees (or their alien replacements?) would simply take less damage. Leave the trees intact; treat it as a strategic terrain type, like water or cliffs.

Although, you could let Engineers remove forests, maybe. "Do I keep this forest as a nice place for my defending units - or my enemy... - or do I want its mass and energy?"

And with trees, I mention 'forests'. Not a tiny spot with three trees.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

maybe bullets yes but bombs and lasers ? its kinda stupid :|

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

When a shot is traveling at obscene speeds, ANYTHING that gets in the way is going to affect it. Even if it kills a tree, the integrity of the projectile is going to be ruined.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Yup, trees just have to perturb projectile trajectory. I agree it doesn't make sense for high-arc fire and that should not be affected.

That's not a bad idea either.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Ugh... Artificial terrain modifiers are pure evil. Isn't the whole point of a simulation to remove the abstraction present in modifiers?

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Indeed, in Spring it functioned analogously to small wrecks that didn't impede movement (so like SupCom wrecks).

TA did have some artificial modifiers like acid lakes though.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

What?... How is acid an artificial modifier?

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

i meant simulated interactions such as wrecks, walls and dragon's teeth

Here's what I was thinking:
wrecks and walls impede movement and fire
dragon's teeth only impede movement
forests (or something else) only impede fire

edit: to clarify, the damage dealt by acid is artificial unlike something simulated which either happens or does not. how much damage something does is artificial, whether that damage happens shouldn't be

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Oh come on.

Why can't all solid matter just block everything? That's the ultimate in consistency.

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Oh dear... dragon's teeth do block fire they're just too low to the ground to affect most projectiles (like in TA).

Forests shouldn't block movement as trees are usually sparse enough to permit movement but trees can still obstruct fire (think speeder bikes in starwars).

and let's not forget, nobody can touch you in the Ardennes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlGrDaPg14

Re: Trees: Can they block shots?

Oh, a dense forest should also block movement, at least up the point where you are slowed down a bit when crushing trees so the preferred way is around the forest. None-massive units like scouts or hovercrafts should even lack the ability to break down trees by moving through them or should slow down to almost zero when attempting to do so.
Blocking shots which require line of sight seems just natural to me, same as setting trees on fire like in original TA or harvesting them for a short energy boost. Same goes for blocking LoS-shots with wreckages and even own units (no friendly fire, but shots still get blocked).

Dragon teeths should also block shots, if placed at the edge of cliff so LoS for weapons would lead straight through them. Of course not if you placed them in a valley, but no sane person would do that with a wall.