Competitive player

Hey guys,

A big draw to a game can be it's ability to be played competitively. Seeing as how the planets are generated procedurally I was wondering if there was any ideas about mirror modes for multiple players?

For example, for a mirrored 2 player map you procedurally generate half a planet and then flip it around, or for 4 players you generate a quadrant and then duplicate it.

Has any thought been put into mirrored modes for this stuff?

I think neutrino wrote something about mirrored maps somewhere. I may be wrong, though.

Wouldn't it be easier to just mirror a planet into 2 planets that orbit a star symmetrically?

Only if each player starts on a different planet, but that might make games take too long to get to the fighting for competetive matches (ie; where are people are watching and will get bored)

That depends on the size of the planets and the speed with which players are able to achieve interplanetary assaults.

It's a Pacing issue.

Why mirror the map? Just let players choose their starting position.

Choosing start positions over an entire planet could turn the whole game into a single round of RPS. There may be no best spot but there will be spots which are strong or weak against other spots. With blind, parallel picking this is basically RPS.

Also, what do you do if the players pick a spot next to each other?
That's not even RPS anymore but a coinflip instead.

Could you provide an example to show this RPS behavior?
I'm not convinced that this is inevitable, even more when we don't know how the game will be balanced.

Disable the area and each players repick a new destination.

There are plenty of options and whatever for handling player spawning, I'm sure we will be the guinea pigs for many of them during the Alpha.

Mike

The idea of symmetrical orbiting planets is very interesting and seems the easiest to work with if you make sure the two planets have equal mass/energy available on the surface.

On the same planet, this is just "regular" map making aside from the fact that maps are round.

Spawn points in "ranked" or automatch will be determined by the matching system, not by the user. If Uber uses, for example, 2v2 maps for 1v1 games, then the system just has to validate the spawn points by an automated verification function. Values could be map dependant, so if the author of the map wants to test relatively close spawn points as a means to differentiate from the other maps, then it could be done also.

/throwing ideas around

As long as symmetrical maps arn't the entirety of the pool.

A better commander can use the terrain he is provided to his advantage and the terrain provided to the enemy as a disadvantage for them. Asymmetrical maps will be far quicker at finding the people who are good at adapting and weed out the 'build order warriors'

hey, planning at a perfect bo is a science of its own

That it is. But it can become a crutch in (some) games that prevents creativity. I personally think it takes more skill to come up with a BO on the fly based on the terrain and intel I have available to me. It also is a decent aid for the immersion factor.

yeah build orders really killed the RTS genre, let's be honest

4v4 with 4 planets, starting off as 4 1v1 matchups. There are lots of ways to make it fair and fun to watch at the start of multi-planet games.

That said, I think the most popular competitive games will be with one main planet that everyone starts on. Maybe some asteroids or small planets for outposts and superweapon options in the mid-to-end game. The attacking from all sides gameplay is enough for endless fun and tactics.

This brings back the original problem of unfair terrain advantage unless the planet is mirrored.

Then we may need a new breed of tournament player. Ones that aren't so snobbish about complete symmetry and want to focus more on making the best use of what's available.

Oh yeah I'd totally be in favor of that, actually. That'd be awesome. We need more improvising in games, it's what keeps watching them fun.

If they iteration process makes the 'commander egg' thing viable and part of the launch game then exact 100% mirror maps may not be needed and still be 'fair'.

You create the map/system, you get your starting positions (either picked or random), THEN you pick your commander (each one may have a different two special abilitys), THEN you pick your starting 'egg'.

So you will see the map, you will see where you start, then you decide on what to bring with you at start to take advantage of what you have.

Tbh a system like that may be vastly superior to an exact mirror match and the same 10-15 teeny tiny maps being played over and over due to them being 'standardized'. Something new each game could really bring in a whole different kind of casting/replay viewership.