I'd like to blame Uber, but I think it's our fault.

I've tried at least a dozen times to get back into Monday Night Combat since the Spunky Cola DLC. I can tolerate it for perhaps an hour before succumbing to reality: the game has become just another team deathmatch.

What I found so charming about MNC was its unique design. It blended the action tower defense mechanics of Toy Soldiers with TF2's squad based shooter mayhem, balancing the two extremes with elements from C&C: Renegade. Creating a new genre is not easy to do, but Uber pulled it off with aplomb.

Unlike most console shooters (Halo, CoD, etc.), Monday Night Combat rewarded strategy over twitch. The play control was sublime; someone with two left thumbs could easily defeat an opponent who went for kills by pushing bots and focusing on the Moneyball. For once, the tea bagging twelve-year-olds were at a disadvantage. Sure, the foundation was wobbly in the beginning, but it worked. I was impressed with how well the classes were initially balanced, even if a little tweaking was necessary. Most of the problems I ran into were caused by lag, bugs, and exploits (sloppy QC).

Instead of sticking to their guns and focusing primarily on fixes/DLC, Uber paid too much attention to the community. With each proceeding patch, forum gripes/suggestions began making their way into the game and subtly changing its core mechanic. The new Highlights and Pro Tags were great, but the new Crossfire arena only underlined the fact that strategy has been thrown out with the bathwater. Kill Kill Kill, buy first juice, Kill Kill Kill, lockout juice machines, repeat until Overtime, then melt the Moneyball.

While it's exceptional for a developer to listen its fanbase instead of kowtowing to a developer, most players have no concept of good game design. Just because they want a feature/change doesn't mean it's a solid idea. Balancing classes and maps is more complicated than the average gamer realizes. The updates feel like Uber is slowly sawing down the legs in order to appease the community. If they're not careful, the ornate table offering a lavish smorgasbord will be reduced to a plank in the mud covered with maggots.

I miss the old MNC. Spunky Cola was the first hat in the millinery of ruin.

I never realized there was a problem

How could you when there wasn't enough time for you to read my post and write a response.

I read it all, and it's nothing new. Just another person that's unwilling to assimilate to metagame changes.

There's nothing wrong with the game. You just have to find new ways to support the objective in Spunky Cola, try getting control of the map so that bots are easier to kill.

So one new map that promotes more close combat completely ruined the strategy of the game? Spunky had an affect on the other four maps....how? They actually helped the strategy of two other maps, Ammo Mule and Steel Peel....Building turrets in certain nubs isn't a waste of $ as it previously was thanks to the glass walls.

It's a Shooter with a bit of a strategy elements, not an RTS. There's always going to be a deathmatch mentality to players.

I have to agree. Most of my friends that have quit playing MNC, never really tried to play the game for any real amount of time post DLC. The game is not broken. You were just too used to palying one specific way, and when the new DLC came out, you had no interest in relearning how to play the game. But let's be honest, you stopped playing this game well before the DLC came out anyway! I do understand though. As far as I know, you liked to play the support class. The air strike nerf did cripple him slightly, but it didn't completely break him. I've been killed by so many shotguns since the DLC it's retarded. The truth is, you were probably tired of playing the game along time ago, and you hoped that the DLC was gonna change that. I'm willing to bet whatever new shooter you are playing still has a team deathmatch element to it, doesn't it?! :mrgreen:

By the way, when I am being hopelessly kill whored, I generally try my hardest to push bots and go for the win. It usually works out just fine. The main game mechanics are still there, Most people are just used to having their kill count be what's important to them. It's always gonna be that way with shooters. :mrgreen:

BURN

I played MNC for about a month to a month and a half when it first came out. I then switched to Reach and Black ops. When I came back Spunky was already out, so there wasn't a huge learning gap for me because I had kind of forgotten my old tricks and play styles. Obviously I hadn't completely forgotten how to play but it did feel like a different game in terms of how people played.

The first thing I noticed that really stood out was how easy it was for assassins to get juice and completely destroy a bases defenses in less than a minutes into the game. I never remember this happening pre-DLC.

Second and Third were the changes to the turrets. The second being how useless and pointless the LB's are now. The third being how cheap the rockets are. Also I find myself buying more long shots, as I always find myself getting damaged by them, but never actually get anything from them (and yes they are usually hacked).

All in all my only major complaint is the assassin and how she can easily destroy two - three 3.3 rocket turrets in one juice. I find that completely unbalanced and unfair.

I don't believe you. Check the timestamps. The initial post was at x:54. I reread through it and edited two words, which went up at x:56. Your response is at x:55.

Again, if you'd read my post, you'd have understood that what I found fun about this game has been eroded via the updates. The tower defense mechanic was evident in the release build, but MNC now plays like a team deathmatch with gimmicky turrets.

I know many players who've either quit playing entirely, or only bother with MNC once a week (emphasis on bother). This is deeper than metagame changes.

This thread is about fundamental changes made to MNC through updates, not Spunky Cola arena in particular. As I said, you weren't paying attention. It should have been clear what I was referencing when I said "Spunky Cola DLC" (update + maps) vs. "the new Crossfire arena" (Spunky Cola map). The arena itself is arbitrary to the changes--Spunky Cola just highlights them the most.

What are some of the fundamental changes you have problems with?

There's a thing called timezones idiot.

There's nothing wrong with this game, you just like to complain. Maybe people just got better so the "team deathmatch" mechanic of this game became more apparent.

Greatest point I've ever read.

Spunky was made to be more chaotic, fast paced and smaller sized arena than the other four. You can blame whoever you want but if you think we just troll the forums and just put stuff into the game because people bitch about stuff, you don't know anything about how we as a studio make games. The forum and feedback from the community is just one data point and not the ONLY data point we use. If we were trying to appeal to the masses we would have made a deathmatch game and not tried to make a game that we wanted to play ourselves. Oh actually you can blame someone, it's Scathis' fault. We're toying around with other map ideas and it's good to mix things up between diff size maps for variety.

Ya, I like these new map updates. I absolutely despise Spunky Cola, but it forced me to find new tactics to fight CQ with a Sniper. I'm quite good at pulling off headshots on people who are charging, rushing or hella close to me.

I want recognition for my involvement in this threads creation.

You want want want, but you never give give give.

I have to agree with Patch on this one. The game does feel different. I felt the shift from strategy to combat almost immediately after downloading the update. For example, I am noticing a lot more games where someone will buy or earn juice and storm the base never touching a turret or even a downed Moneyball. Kills, kills, kills.

I can't agree that it has made me dislike the game but I do feel the differences Patch is talking about (across all arenas).

I never said it was broken...

My entire argument is about the changes Uber made (many due to the community), which ended up alienating players. I'm curious what would have happened if they'd just left the balance alone and focused on bugs, exploits, and new maps.

I was used to a unique shooter that combined tower defense with squad based gameplay. The changes might be minor, but they've shifted the focus away from pushing bots and building turrets. I don't want to play team deathmatch.

When the first patch was released, I adjusted. I didn't agree with all the changes, but at least the Moneyball could no longer be shot down. It still felt like a tower defense game at that point.

No, I stopped playing the day after Spunky Cola was released.

I primarily played Support and Gunner; and, I think it was much easier to get kills with the Support after the patches (this is bad).

Please stop telling me about truth and honesty.

I loved MNC up until the day of Spunky Cola's release. I still played the game frequently; the only aspect I was tired of was the broken party system that became worse after the second patch.

The first match after the Spunky Cola update, the changes were obvious. To someone who'd played as much as I had, it felt like a completely different game.

I've been playing Bad Company 2. It has a squad deathmatch mode. I played it once and never touched it again. I prefer objective based gameplay (Rush, Conquest); I no longer get the feeling that the Moneyball matters in MNC. It's just a kill fest until Overtime. Whichever team has the juice machine locked down wins the match.

That was possible before the changes to the juice machines. Some of the most fun I had in MNC was sneaking out of my base, buying juice, and single-handedly winning matches against spawn killers. Now it's highly unlikely.

But it wasn't this way with MNC, which is what made it special. Once again:

It plays pretty much the same. When playing as a team, the ball always drops. Overtime is extremely rare. Slaying has always been important, I don't see many changes except that the gunner is significantly weaker.