Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be in PA

Supcom was a great game, but to me it failed in certain parts.

The upgrade system - T1 and T2 units redundant after T3? Nope, didn't like it, neither did Chris taylor, and that led to supcom 2.

The 'Eco' bit. i get it, I really do. But i hated that it was quite a big part of it, by all means fight for resources, but upgrading factorys, and mexes, no...just no. I just wanted to focus on the fighting strategy.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom

I disliked the need for Experimentals (also known as T4), largely due to Shields.

I prefered playing the game with Experimentals and Shields turned off.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

I take it then you haven't used the Topic Index and Confirmed Features List then?

Mike

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

I think you summed it up nicely. Great game, still play it, but the tech system and the eco whoring is annoying at times.

If anything I hate how tech1 unit rushing is basically the way to play in 1v1.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Once again: fighting alone isn't strategy, it's tactics.

As far as I'm concerned supcom is virtually perfect and straying from the formula too much can and will only be a downgrade.

But it did have a few things that I felt didn't help it. The tech obsolescence was bad, and meant most matches boiled down to racing for tech 3 and spamming one unit because it was the best by a large margin. Rather than the slow escalation that was obviously intended. Getting rid of the escalation entire is not a solution as you then remove an aspect of the game.
Forged Alliance didn't make things better with its significantly cheaper experimentals.

You could still get escalating games with lots of T1 and T2.... on small balanced maps where those units could easily rush you, creating the need for retaliation at those tech levels. Bringing me to my second point; the maps were way too large. After 20km it just becomes unplayable, even with lots of players. The sweet spot seems to sit somewhere between 10 and 20km for all numbers of players, 2 or 8.
Again Forged Alliance hacked a cheap solution in by increasing the movement speed for many units dramatically, effectively making the maps smaller. But breaking maps that were previously good.

Finally, the most egrerious point of all. The exponential economy. Once the economy goes exponential whoever is ahead of the curve will win by default, all of your time is from that point on spent on building more eco. Mass farms span the map and armies of support commanders litter the field. And all of this is a huge waste of time as one player has already won with no hope of a comeback from the other. Central mass points with lots of resources likewise provide a crutch that allows one player to get ahead on the curve and win by default if it is held.
Forged Alliance attempted to make mass farming less effective but as always, it simply broke things instead. Making T1 mass farms that may be essential in certain situations and essential for enabling successful turtling useless.

This is a fundamental issue with TA style economies. Balancing the need for escalation with the need for the ability to make an economic comeback with the need for making turtling a viable alternative. There is no easy answer.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

I disliked the extremely slow gameplay and the lagging in the multiplayer games. (Thing went really slow in multiplayer when you played 4v4). And yes, I got an high end computer

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Eh? No it's not. Fighting can be Strategy and tactics, tactics is small scale, doing what you need to do to make sure the overall plan (Strategy) gets works out. Many games that are supposedly RTS, are infact RTT.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Why yes Mike, yes i have. But this thread is for people who want to rant about the faults of supcom.

Is that ok is it?

Mike.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

TA had its own flaws as well, as do several Spring games. If we're going to pick on Supcom, we should pick on those games too, so as not to make Supcom cry. :cry:

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Go for it, i couldn't Fit TA, or Supcom 2 in the title of the thread. While were on the subject of TA, Flash rushes, Ugh...

Also, supcom 2, of course the research tree, and the who miniature feel of the game, it was like, hop, skip, and here is the enemy. You could wave and he could probably see you, i dunno if ACU's wave but whatever.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

No, Ranting for the sake of ranting is pointless and contributes only Forum Clutter, You main point regarding the Way SupCom Handled Tiers is covered by these;

Ranting about it all over again after it's already been addressed is pointless.

Mike

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Wow! Thanks for that Mike, but im going to go ahead and keep going on this thread, incase we come up we anything that's been missed, as a self appointed mod i'm sure you will be watching over this thread, like an angel in the darkness or whatever.

Mike

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Supcom2 broke the sim in the most awful ways in order to simplify the economy to the point where the economy barely mattered.

It accomplished its goal of faster matches with more action and a greater emphasis on units, but at a terrible cost.
These aren't bad goals, but they removed the game to make way for them, making the final product very shallow.

The research is highly schizophrenic from a purely mechanical standpoint. The problem was that tech levels made the previous ones obsolete and uncompetitive. So they added research to upgrade units so units could stay relevant.
And then they removed the tech levels, making the need for upgrades nil.

Classic developer doublewhammy overcompensatory design. Either they nerf it into the ground or buff it to the point where it's pointlessly overpowered, there is no balance with these guys.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Yeah, I hope the economy is less punishing than supcom's economy was. Upgrading extractors was like cutting teeth, and if you tried to upgrade at the wrong time it was suicide. And of course, the endless powergen/mass fabricator fields.

Edit: also lol @ knight

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

SupCom isn't a strategy game, unless you call "manage my economy better than my opponent" a strategy. It's a game of economic micromanagement and tactical trumping. I'd prefer PA focuses on the strategy of large scale battles.

The only real RTS games are made by paradox.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

it is a strategy game, in fact, quite possibly the only one, as you have to manage your resources strategically and strike the enemys resources, strategically

it is the logistics of the economy that provides this depth

collect power, identify goals, project power to achieve those goals

that the goal is always "kill the enemy commander" is another thing, but it is strategic I can assure you, not a lot of other RTS games manage that

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

supcom is about as strategic as starcraft

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Normally I'd agree that Supcom is hardly the most heavy in the strategic area in comparison to other games (though I hardly think Paradox's games are flawless representations). But comparing its strategic value to Starcraft? Now you're just throwing around hyperbole.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

More intel more strategy imo.

Re: Things you disliked about Supcom that you hope wont be i

Looks like it's time to define strategy!

Anyway:

• Generic units and few types.
• Excessive economy micromanagement (the thing that most people call macro)