Capturing other units

The question I am asking is, which builder units should be able to capture. Should it be only the commander or all engineers. Vote and reply with your opinions.

Well limiting it to only commanders would make capturing things pretty risky.

Also since all sides have the same unit pool its not like you would get access to more cool toys if you pulled off an engineer or factory capture like in SupCom. I see capturing as being of rather limited use in PA for this reason so I don't see any reason not to allow all builders to do it.

Commanders.
Advanced Constructors.
Experimentals?

I don't see why any builders should be able to capture. It is not like other constructor abilities in that capture is basically a weapon. A constructor which can capture at a speed fast enough to be not-irrelevant will mess with the raiding game.

Giving all constructors capture is like arming all constructors. I think capture is better off on a dedicated unit if at all.

Reclaim is already the go-to engineer weapon, capture should work like it did in SupCom.

I had forgotten about their only being one 'race'. With this the only real use of capture will be on unprotected buildings (metal extractors outside the main base that have not had defenses build around). And since you would not want to risk your commander on capturing a small value target like that and because your commander could be a very long way away (on another planet maybe) I think there should be some other unit that can capture.

Another thing to add is maybe flying builders should not be able to capture. Flying builders were very useful in TA and if the could also capture they may become OP. This could be fixed by increasing the cost but they need to be cheap so they can be deployed in numbers.

Oops, I forgot how reclaim worked in TA.

Is there any way it edit the poll. I want to be able to add some more options.
Never mind, I worked it out.

I don't see why there should be inconsistencies in what units equipped with a build ray is able to do.

That's true enough I suppose. I just thought for GP balancing it would be overpowered but thinking about it its not really anymore powerful than reclaiming and the builder plan could just build a gun instead.

Yes, if the enemy has time to shoot the builder then the builder does not have time to capture the enemy.

Reclaim is a single kill. Capture is a double kill, because the enemy loses one and you gain one. Reclaim is almost a double kill as well, because omnomnom practically gives you another unit. Kind of.

One annoying thing about capture is that it can not be assisted. Each unit had its own capture time. If assisting was possible, then the ability's access would need to be more limited. Too early and everything will become capture wars between the biggest piles of engis. That's why I say it should only go on advanced engis, as it is a superior form of reclaim and clearly more dangerous when used properly. The real juicy targets don't show up until late game, and starting mexes are pretty trivial to suck up and replace.

Different units, different roles, different niches. The lathe carries a HUGE amount of function, and any single option is good enough to make a unit all its own.

I sort of agree that capture is a micro-based mechanic. You could deny your opponent any capture with ctrl+k. Being able to capture neutral/civilian buildings was interesting in SupCom though.

I'd probably be okay with capture working how it did in SupCom - only ever being useful to capture some periphery MEX and civilians.

bobucles you seem to be assuming a lot about capture which sounds specific to FA. I would assume capture can be assisted.

As there’s just 1 race in order for it to be worthwhile putting your engineers at risk it would have to be either finically cheaper to capture units or developmentally faster (cheap low tier bots can capture higher tier stuff) but given that capturing already results in a loss for the enemy at the same time as you gain (a double whammy) this means that the whole mechanic, if useful and attractive in standard gameplay, would be so strong as to mean that your in territory of a slippery-slope mechanic from which an opponent cant recover. I think this is why TA kept it as an almost exclusively plot driving feature to enhance the campaign. So I’d say commander only for that reason.

That's because I like to lay out how the previous games worked. It's oft forgotten in most discussions.

Capture is a supremely powerful mechanic. The enemy loses one, and you gain one. That's a pretty strong swing. Assisting lets engineers focus fire enemy forces and cause even faster switches in allegiance.

Supcom 2 showed the power of capture in its Cybran campaign. It can be crazy lethal if used properly.

Picture this mission. Now, remembering there will be flying builders in PA like in TA, imagine that same mission with flying builders coming at you as well as land ones. The mission would be much harder. Now imagine these flying builders been controlled by a player. Flying builders reclaiming your buildings was a problem in TA if they could capture them as well it would easily become OP.

Overpowered compared to what? These things are all relative. You don't know how powerful conventional firepower is going to be so you can't compare it.

If an enemy construction unit has time to move to your structures unharmed and capture them, that could just as well be a combat unit moving in unharmed to destroy them. The real issue is you're not bothering to defend your hoardings. So I fail to see the problem here.

Just because there is only 1 race/faction doesn't mean there isn't a point in capturing.

For example, let's say you make a push and slaughter a forward fire base.
And your units primary fire on defenses and defenders (turrets, shields, units).
I think capture is a good option to have.

In terms of speed.
Attack > Reclaim > Capture
This hierarchy explains how fast you eliminate the opposing forces/threat.
But Reclaim is more beneficial to your side as you get the mass from it (maybe like 1/2 cost of the mass?)
And Capture would be even more beneficial as maybe you pay the 1/2 mass, and is slow to capture, but you gain the unit.


So just because there is one faction does not exclude capturing as a battlefield option.

Have you played that mission in SC2?

But the difference between killing it with a combat unit (in this case a fighter or bomber as I was talking about flying builders) and capturing it is not only does the enemy loose something you also gain something. Double power. If you manage to get some combat units to an unprotected area you have to destroy everything then fly your builders in. This gives your opponent some time to react (which will be needed in large games). If flying builders could capture then you could just fly in and capture the enemies factory. Effectively killing it and building your own in half the time.