Rushing

...That video did heavily cover strategy games. And strategy is strategy, no matter how much RTS users like to pretend their brand is "special".

Actually, there are two applicable videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... sIk#t=123s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6fVHZFjnmA

The first one being slightly more applicable.

Getting a few kills by a foos, is good.

Wining an entire game by it is bad design.

No amount of you-tube videos or walls of text is going to convince me otherwise.

Um... Duh?

We know that. It doesn't mean FOO is inherently bad, as you seem to claim.

If that means you agree on the premise of what I just said, that I will apologise for the claims of it being totally bad.

I am not great at getting my point across, I just don't want a foos to win a game, but maybe a few battles, or even a planet, but no solar system.

God damn it. Could we get this person removed or something for being A: Bloody annoying and B: For advertising what is most likely a virus. And C: They are most likely a robot.

Please don't respond to spam posts. Just flag them and move on. When they hit, they tend to hit all at once. It just takes us a bit to get to them all. Flagging them makes them easier for us to find.

So having to do the same thing every time instead of being able to choose what you want to do is better?

Sounds boring and repetitive to me, exactly what you want to avoid in a genre characterized by boring and repetitive but necessary slow openings.

The trick to an interesting match is to subvert sun tzu. If the game can be over in the first ten seconds then something is fundamentally wrong. You need to extend the tipping point for as long as possible and end it as soon as possible when it is clearly not recoverable. If you play a 20 minute match that was decided by FOO in the first ten seconds then you just wasted 20 minutes.

No, the point is that FOO Strats are powerful purely on the basis of the skill required to pull them off, there are Strats that would be as high AND higher power, but require more skill to execute.

A well balanced FOO strat is only a stepping stone in regards to a player's skill progression.

Mike

some comments are implying foos lead to fixed build orders.

I don't see why this is can someone explain?

I quite like opening theory in rts games and I see the need for simple baseline strategy.
it might be good if the rush wasn't the baseline though.

An optimal build order is the not the best? Making it the only viable one against a skilled opponent?

I'd like to know more about this strange new universe you have discovered.

That is only if the FOO Strat is superior to all other potential Strategies in terms of power.

The Point of FOOs is they they have a low skill requirement but a high power output, that does not mean that there aren't other strategies with the same or more overall power, they just have a higher skill requirement.

It's not a black and white thing, a FOO isn't something that would be classified as OP, just easy to execute, it's a shade of grey.

Mike

If there are viable alternatives then it cannot, by definition, be optimal.

They are still the optimal choice if you have a low skill level, thus why the F stands for 'First', but over time as a player's skill increases they will be able to perform other strats that have the same or more overall power but would be too complex for a beginner to execute.

Mike

I like how BMB seemsto have ignored those videos I linked.

I did. I don't think extra credits is very good or worth paying heed to.

Well that says a lot about whether you're worth listening to :lol:

So because I don't like what you like I am not worth listening to?

Idiot.

Calm down, the least you could do is tell me why. They had perfectly sound arguments in the videos they linked, if not in others.

You called it right, I didn't watch that video so I can't say. I don't think it's super important anyway. The issue is rushing, not arbitrary definitions of what vague terms like "depth" means.

:lol: most of the thread was about stuff like all-ins and the videos I linked actually tackle that class of strategies in depth. Just watch them =/