For Backers Only: Megabot Experiment

Just a reminder for people, the Uber-Bot in the first post is a stand-in. It isn't even a"white-box" of an Uber-Bot. It's just a there to help compare the scale.

I really like the idea and the concept you guys have made looks great. Could there be a few of those type units with different abilities/wepons. How about a super unit for land sea air and at a push space? Just a small suggestion but it looks slightly too square, that's just my opinion but Thers something to take into account.

I got an awesome idea for this. Effectively you could make an experimental which is an extremely accurate base wrecker.

You send one in, it grapples the moon and pulls it down. This takes time, which can lead to the destruction of the experimental, possibly ruining your game if you spent all your economy on it. Regardless, you loose the experimental when you take the base out. So as long as it's not where the commander is, you don't win anything but more resources (because more land).

Still not a fan of "Super Units", but I thought it was a cool idea regardless. And if these do make it in the game, it's way too big. It is the size at which you're going to be obscuring your view of the enemy and your own units.

As I've been trying to emphasize, a large robot being a Krogoth-style "good against everything" unit would be very very difficult to balance. It would either become a game-ender, which is bad for a number of reasons already discussed, or it would just never be used due to inefficiency.

I'd prefer giant units to take on roles that are only possible with giant robots. As mentioned, direct firepower is better delivered with many smaller robots, since they would have greater flexibility. I envision megabots being things like mobile base-breaker artillery, mobile bases, giant missile batteries, big shielded transports (like the UEF T3 transport), or some kind of "beach-head" robot for initial deployment on a heavily defended enemy planet.

So, yes, I like the idea of a giant robot, but approaching it from an attitude of "make a giant robot with as many guns as possible" is probably quite flawed.

I really do not think we can judge scale until we terrain and planets. Don't want satellites to have to navigate around it's shoulders.
That being said though the transition into space and multi planet battles is still a lot more complex than super units. I really think space transportation and satellites should be concept out befor super units as these are the things that or going to define PA, not super Units.

I've always like the idea of a giant Bot, because once it's built you know things are going to get interesting. As much as I love this idea, I don't think a huge, expensive robot that is nearly unstoppable should be the main focus. Just because it's experimental doesn't mean it has to be big with a variety of different guns. I would instead like to see more Bots with specializations. All terrain, amphibian tanks would be an example of what I would call an experimental unit because he has much more advantages over regular tanks. Blending more things like Stealth and Ranged into units would help as well. How about things like a bot that shoots EMP rockets, temporary disabling anything they hit. On another note what about an experimental construction bot that can build special things? I think I'm getting into a T3 class now, but these are just my ideas.

The only thing im concerned about is the "spamability" of these units. A problem with supcom 2 experimentals was that once you got them, you would only produce experimentals. adding an artificial unit cap to mega bots would be a little silly, as it couldn't be explained well and just doesnt fit well with PA's general goals.

Commander "suit"
There have been a few people mentioning that it could be a suit that the commander could climb into, and it may sound silly to some people, but the way i see it, its killing two birds with one stone.
-The first "bird" is that by forcing a player to put a commander in the mega-bot makes it so that these cant just be spammed from multiple factories. But you can make more than one for i would imagine a very large cost. Neutrino mentioned that you could build more commanders for a significant amount of resources, and if you add the cost of the mega "suit" then spamming these should take a very very large amount of resources, and taking a vital building unit out of production (as i would imagine commanders wouldn't be able to build while in the mega suit).
-The second "bird" is making sure that the commander can be a helpful combat unit late game while not being overpowered in the early game. This was solved in other games through upgrades, but uber has made it clear that they do not want upgrades as they reduce readability and have other issues. But im pretty sure a massive walking mega bot is pretty readable...

so it might not be that bad of an idea. But i'm also totally fine with it just being a megabot. I think it looks great scale wise.

What is the definition of inefficient? Its firepower/cost ratio? What about its stompiness/bacon ratio?

For a Timmy unit it's probably more acceptable to be relatively overcosted in terms of physical power. It would also be wise to consider giving it a Death Star's exhaust pipe, an Achilles' Heel: a cheap way to neutralize it. Regardless of Timmy unit's performance on the battlefield it will serve other needs, such as dazzling and taunting.

I like it.

The Megabot being an exoskeleton for your Commander sounds very interesting concept indeed, I vote for that

I don´t want it to be any bigger. It may even be a little bit too big, but I need to observe the unit ingame to compare it to structures and other units in general.
the two hip cannons might be a bit odd but the concept looks fine for me.

I really want to like this. I generally love big robots. I think the original presentation of PA is so clean, though, that having super units right away dilutes the concept. As much as enjoyed these things in SupCom, I was kind of looking forward to playing a game that focused more on basic units and their environment than another game where I race to build an ubermech. I'll love the game either way, probably, but I'd really like to see more of what is going on with basic units.

That said, I do appreciate that you keep backers in the loop. If you go this way I'll find a way to like it.

Size looks good to me. Also looks like it might use missiles, and I always like units that fire a huge cloud of missiles.

If it would actually fit in the game might be a stupid question to ask me, I've got no idea or enough experience with these games.

Bigger. Make it insanely big. Double the size of the battleship.

Should be a magnificent piece of art and power. Make it so its so beautiful, that every person playing will want to build it just to look at it.

Can't say anything more since you want just visual feedback. If you decide to go for it I'll give my opinion on his abilities!

I totally would like Krogoths... or other larger units... but it is hard for me to say what to do with them since I know nothing about the actually gameplay of PA. I have to wait till the Alpha is out, to test and play and then think about how to implement big units like this one.
The first impression was, slightly too big (compared with the rest of the PA units) and cool.

For me it is all about the balancing and how to use and move those units... will they be limited to one... like the Krogoth was?

Overall, I think it looks cool but I have too many questions to have an opinion.

You know bigger isn't better, but actually much worse? Bigger units are easier to hit with strategic weapons. There's about a million reasons why the big weapons of WWII (Big bertha, the super tanks, etc) saw their end when the war did: They're too expensive, too slow, utterly destroy anything friendly they come into contact with, easy too kill with big guns, and even ignoring all those factors, so slow that any smaller force could simply avoid them.

Big units like this are ridiculous to the point of absurdity, and you want bigger?

There was a mod for TA that added a unit called the razorback, it was smaller and simpler than this and I loved that, it had two chain guns and a rail gun and was probably twice as big as the biggest arm K-bot. I like that scale for "super" units. They are just a little bigger and a little better, not a mech as big as a factory. This allows for easier deployment, faster movement (key when marching across a whole planet) and it doesn't ruin the scale of the other ground units.

+1

I really disagree with this.


I understand the whole spiritual successor thing and the obsession with Krogoth in fans but i really liked the direction of the game before this. I don't like super units, they turn the game away from a war and into a race for the biggest gun.

If this is what people want, fine but i dont like it.

Totally agree with ToastAndEggs on this one.