For Backers Only: Megabot Experiment

The Super Unit need to be a little bit bigger.
Nice example modell anyway

*smiles* I dunno, some of my fondest gaming memories are of examples which appeal to both of them. Smashy on the outside, but with other, more subtle options. They aren't mutually exclusive: Timmy just needs units to be obviously big and powerful; he doesn't need them to be especially well-rounded, so there's plenty of room for strategic specialties and weaknesses, which are Johnny's forte.

Any super unit is inevitably a Timmy unit just by being big and expensive. It doesn't cease to be a Timmy unit if you make it a Johnny unit as well.

A good example is the commander itself. It can build, fight, use a few different special abilities, or be deployed as a tactical nuke. At first glance: very simple, big, powerful and ham-fisted. But it can really change the nature of the game based on how a player decides to use it.

Edit:

This sparks a lot of very interesting ideas in my head. *shakes fist* Darn your socks for making me like an option which leans away from my own stated preference that large units have interplanetary combat applications!

The option to use a large unit to help literally entrench an army is very compelling. Another option would be the ability to open a path through mountains or other obstacles which isn't big enough for it, but would allow T1 and perhaps T2 units through.

I have to say that the scale looks pretty good. (That's what the point of the thread is, right?)

I can see it slowly marching down the debry strewn canyon, towards the heavy line of point-defenses and dragons-teeth...

If we are going to talk about "Uber-Units", I think that a single super-slow-super-expensive unit is OK. Think about it. It moves so slow, it effectively would only work as a Turtle-Breaker. Have it's movement and turning speed be so slow that any reasonable sized force could circle behind it, and take it down.

It's perfect! This is the robot that Goldilocks would have chosen. Not too big, not too small.

Yeah, you got me there.

My point is that a pure Timmy unit can be a worthwhile inclusion. It's not necessary for it to be a Johnny/Timmy hybrid. Even if the dumb brute doesn't find a place in Johnny's and Spike's armies, it's still a formidable foe they'll have to outwit.

*nods* That is fair and I do very much agree.

I'm mostly trying to keep the discussion nice and open and not rule out any interesting ideas purely because of unconfirmed assumptions of what the unit should or shouldn't be. *warm laugh* Which is more easily said than done, as it's really easy to get attached to ideas and unthinkingly dismiss another option without giving it proper consideration.

I like big units but it should not be done like in the past (TA, Supcom).

Maybe a good idea could be to fuse eg. 20 bots to a superunit with special features.
Then you dont have to balance the eco for this unit. It simply costs the same than an
equal amount of normal units and you dont need an extra gantry.
Surely you have to think about the conditions for this fusion and the special features of the new unit.

What do you think about this approach?


<nonsensemode on>
And Megabots CAN move between planets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQAvMUUJr4
<nonsensemode off>

Holy crap that thing HAS to be made!!

Size is nice, love the idear!

Well first things first, i think the size is pretty ok, there are some issues with proportions but that's not what the discussion is about. It might stand to be a bit smaller, maybe scale it to 75-80%?

As for purpose, I think super units should have specific purposes but not necessarily special abilities.

The robot shown for example should be sort of a walking nuke, capable of ripping apart any base unless specifically countered by something similar to itself or specific units (air/space, maybe some direct fire missiles?). But it should be nearly useless against conventional units and they should also be largely useless against it.

The closest example i can think of is eve online, where something like a battleship or dreadnought is virtually immune to the attacks of smaller ships like frigates and cruisers but at the same time it's huge guns are completely useless against said ships.

It would also make battles look more awesome with the hulking behemoths slugging it out among themselves in what seems like slow motion compared to the swarms of robots and tanks constantly moving and exploding at their feet.

I'd personally like them to be cheaper than experimentals in supcom so you could see them in action more often but at the same time there would be no point in just building a lot of them since they would be unable to counter the conventional army that just rolls past them into your base.

Uber, pls stick with your original plan to care about super units later and concentrate on the normal units first. If I see just a bunch of normal units in the alpha, but two Airnomos and three Pulinsmashs, Im gonna... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

the megabot needs to have a defined role.

Need to level a base but leave the planet intact (no asteroid) then build this unit on the planet, for higher costs than the KEW, and i'm ok with it. it has a role.

Basically all i want is it to be balanced. I don't want it to be a unit you strive to make, but a unit that under the right circumstances is the optimal unit to make. when i see one on the battlefield i want to be surprised, not have it an inevitability that every battle devolves into.

i didn't have time to read everything for now, but i'm really happy to see that the idea of making huge units is slowly getting out of the "not necessary zone"

i saw a lot of people saying "not big enough" or "yay, but could it also do this, this and this ?", it"s great to be enthousiastic about big units getting closer to be in the game, but i believe we should'nt ask for too munch either.

concerning this early design, I feel the size is perfect, many people including me would like it to be able to stomp on smaller (normal sized) units, but it isn't a really critical aspect of it and can be added later.

i think what matters most is the balancing of it, many people were not so happy with the fact that games often turned into "experimental rushes" in supcom. it was almost impossible to beat an experimental unit without another experimental unit, and even i do agree with this.

however, and maybe some will not be happy about that, but huge units also make sense on a tactical point of view. imagine you have 100 peewee, and your opponent have 80 of them, you attack and win, but you have only 20% of your firepower left to blow up his base. now imagine you weld your 100 peewee together in a huge megabot that have 100 times more HP, firepower, cost and whatever. you attack, you win, you still have 100% firepower, but only 20% HP left.

the problem is that it direcly leads to battles of huge units only, and I don't want that (if everything's huge, in the end nothing is). So basically it is not something that should be send alone to blow up everything, it should have some flaws that makes them unable to cope with a swarm of little units. to my opinion a good exemple of what i have in mind is the cybran megalith, it is completely unable to hit something behind it and is very slow to rotate. an other thing that could limit the efficiency against swarms is fire rate, the amount of HP, or even limit their use at one per planet (but this doesn't make sense of an army of robots).

well, anyway, it shouldn't be game-ender units, it can't be transportable between planets since it is way too heavy.

i guess one of the problem of huge units is pathfinding and making it trample on smaller stuff, but maybe the problem can be simplified by just making it trample over everything (well, maybe except over commanders and big buildings) including your own units if they are in the way. it would be quite in the flavor of the biggest unit possible.

i fully trust the staff of PA to make it as great as possible, and if in the end they don't have enough time to make a lot of huge units, then so be it (provided that it comes later as an official patch)

but if there can be at least one super-unit in the launch version of the game, i would be happy.

Need morh rockets!!!

But srsly, that thing looks epic..the challenge will be getting the balance right. But wow...

I love it. It's not too big as too completely make the smaller units look useless, but it's large enough to show that this thing has got some serious firepower. Keep up the good work, I'm happy with everything I see from you guys.

Btw: for exosuit:

Ever watched Gurren Lagann? They had anexosuitkind of thing for every exosuit so at the end they ended with bots big as Galaxies standing on galaxies .

Well i ever understood gurren lagann as satire. could be wrong though.

I think the size is about right if there are going to be smaller and bigger experimentals. I hope they get balanced like in supcom 2 that they only excel at one thing and are not a monster that could level entire planets by themselves (would be awesome though )

an experimental that has incredible fire power against land units but lacks in anti-air, and another that excels in anti-air but has moderate fire power against land units.
or another that is moderate in all kinds of weaponry, things like that.

The size of the whitebox experimental unit is good, they should not dominate the battlefield. Like the others also said that it's not going to be experimental against experimental war.

Keep up the good work! Can't wait to get my hands on the beta!

Just thought i'd jump in again and say i like the idea of it being an exosuit for the commander.

Makes me laugh envisioning a commanders head being tiny in comparison to the rest of the armour.



:lol: :lol:

Well, the idea for a experimental unit like supcom/FA is not really bad, but I think the context between a
huge unit = huge damage is not really good. Because the normal units will more useless in the endgame,
when a lot exp. moves on the planet(s).

I personally think the experimental should be more like a supporter for the units.
It can be makes, for example, your units in the catchment area stronger,
healing there, and make damage over time to enemy units inside the area.
With that abilities it'd be makes the normal units still usefully in the lategame,
instead to spam exp. to clear the enemy base.

P.S.
Sorry for my english.
I have not really experience in written english, because I don't do it really often. ^^'

OMG! Please, don't do that!

I love the Krogoth very much. And I also like the monkey lord.
But I think this "thing" is either a) a too early concept or b) the ugliest robot I've ever seen.
Sorry for the harsh words! But I cant even say how much I dislike this thing.

And my only which is: Make this game as you have it in your mind! This is important for all of us!
Just one faction. Just two tech levels. No experimentals. No shields.
I liked all of that stuff in SC, but I think I will like PA without it, because:

Neutrino, you've shown some points clear, when you were talking about the fact that there will only be one faction, only two tech level, no experimental units and no shields.
And now, after you told us what thoughts are behind that, after I understood that thoughts, after I thought by myself, those are the right choices ... after that, you give us the mega unit.

I beg you: Don't do that!

I won't say: "Give a **** about the community!"
But don't deal with the wishes of the community this way!
This is how games being ruined these days. Diablo 3 is a perfect example for that.

You have a vision. And most people want this game because of the concept video. This is what we want!

I'm done. I like the new tank by the way.

But I also like the early concepts. Great readability. I gave a **** about that stuff before PA. I ever wanted the best graphics. Now, everything I want are the cute robots from the concept video. Sorry. Most of the units are to complex for my taste. I've never said before PA. Before the early concepts.