For Backers Only: Megabot Experiment

Given the new dynamics of terrain that can be destroyed/warped & the aspect of multiple battlefields (planet to Asteroid) I'd go down the route of "not now, later mod/expansion", I'd rather learn the new game mechanics of the above with the standard units first.

But when (because if you don't, someone will mod it) super units happen it would be great to take into account the dynamic terrain, like a large unit stomping across the battlefield should maybe create actual foot prints in the terrain where it walked - in fact maybe that should be a "special" ability - to warp the terrain.

I really like big units but hope it is not a game ended unit.

but it looks like it is a bit too big for at robot factory tech 2.

Ahh. I like the scale. It can step on smaller units, crash them, fire many weapons at once while going through hordes of smaller ones, getting fired at by tens of units around trying to desperately shut him down. Head and anti air guns spinning, with brassy sounds and screen shaking... :twisted:

While I agree they are hard to make, hard to balance and sometimes useless in multiplayer because too expensive, the massive fun I had with them in TA (Krogoth still my favorite one, then the SC1 fatboy) is really worth it. Epic is epic.

So, scale seams about right. It compares to the big battleship. Big enough for me.

The size of the unit seems okay.

I don't like it's armament, which consists of many small weapons. I'd rather like "mega-units" having weapons that are too heavy for "regular" sized units. But it's a whitebox so my complain might be too early.

Oh and the Y-Tank looks pretty cool.

I like it, but to me it seems just a little too big than the other units...

Also have you considered to deploy new units with an incremental approach?
The base game will have some units, then you will be able to add new units with a patch system....

I want to quote this in the hopes someone will notice it this time =/

When do we get to take the bots for a test run so we can see how they feel?

would love to drive one of these around. and have lots of tank minions following "big-daddy"

It's okay, you don't need to worry so much. (n.~) I noticed this was mentioned several times, and that was after I thought of the same idea myself.

I'm pretty sure Uber is also reading the whole thread, so even if they haven't thought of it as well, I'm sure they've already noticed it, or soon will.

It's one of those things that would be central enough to the design that I suspect they won't rely on fan enthusiasm in this thread to decide whether or not it's a viable option.

If they like the idea enough, they'll probably ask for more opinions on it specifically, in a separate thread.

That said, it also would be central enough to make it quite difficult to implement, so please try to keep your chin up if they need to focus on other options, okay? Try to keep the other corner of that mouth from dropping.

I think it wouldn't hurt to have larger more powerful units like this, as long as they stay specialized. The whitebox design looks like it has tons of different weapons which would imply that it's good against everything. I'd rather have a bigger unit that excels in one specific thing and not an army condensed in a unit, that would be rather boring.

Also:

I think that's a great idea, it's a small departure from the core concept but it's new and intriguing. As the commander getting incorporated into other units (egg, spacerocket) is already going to be in the game, i think this might be a logical extension. it would also make the commander-upgrade-people happy and would not have any problems concerning readabilty. Also it would make the commander viable late game...

^^^

I like it visually, assuming the arms are giant Uber-Cannons, but the hip guns could go, they look unwieldy and out of place. What with the missiles and such it looks like a long range artillery like unit.

Also, is that thing on its back a giant jetpack?!?!?!!?

Yeah, it just seemed no one commented on it which is a sure recipe for an idea dying.

*lip quivers*

I like it.

One other good thing if you clearly pay attention to other units, is that you can also see that a few of them have disapeared, others have appeared, others have been improved when it come to design

Which means, each time we backers get access to a new unit on from this white box, then it means we can see the project moving forward

I do like the idea of it being a commander battlesuit, it stops it being an expendable fire-and-forget weapon and naturally limits its number. I'm not sure about specific implementation though, perhaps the commander could have an emergency eject button that flings him from the suit? Or perhaps it would be better to force players to commit to the level that if the megabot dies, the game is over? Obviously the commander could leave the battle suit at will, but if he has to climb down a ladder at the back then he's not got a lot of chance to escape in the case of a firefight big enough to threaten the megabot chassis.

Also, Sethna, I like the cut of your jib. Some excellent points (carrier analogy etc.).

Why do Superunits always need to be giant, weapon-filled, tanky monstrosities?
I'm okay with them being giant and being monstrosities, but I'd prefer them to fulfil a much more strategic roles. They need to add to the depth of the game, not take it away (as oversized bulldozers tend to do). For example there could be a huge, intimidating movable facility which can produce smaller units at a decent rate (xD kinda reminds me of C&C4) or a transportable unit launcher or anything else opening new strategic possibilities.

ephoscus brings up an excellent point. PA is about smashing planets. What better way to show it than with an oversized planet smashing war engine?

An especially turtlley player may hide his base behind a gigantic pile of rocks and mountains, destroying everything at the little choke points. A big unit solves the problem of annoying terrain walls, and gives a real feeling of well damn it when done right. Don't like that mountain? Smash it down. It is now an entrance.

Is such a unit suited to killing enemy targets? Not really. Sure, its armaments can be used to destroy enemy units, but its first role is to be a siege engine. Siege engines demand fire support, and use their large terraforming power to clear the way.

Recklessly destroying wreckage and planet space is a great way to deny yourself resources AND attack paths in the long term. That could end up very damaging in a large scale game. Similarly, dropping huge wreckage piles on his doorstep is another fantastic way to lose. Both angles are just one of many ways to control big unit balance, and help establish a good set of rules for their use.

But then again, maybe that money is better off strapped to an asteroid and launched into the planet. It's tough to tell at this point.

What is the Commander bringing to the suit, that can't just be built into the unit itself? Perhaps the Comm's power source is justifiably strong enough to power the thing, but just like... build another one.

The reasoning is from a gameplay perspective, a natural way to limit it to 1, make it important and keep the commander useful in the lategame. Lore considerations have nothing to do with it yet.

I love the idea of a powersuit by the way.

Besides the concept that a megabot in itselfs can add more strategic diversity, there is more to a game (and its players) than the mechanics.

Please read this: viewtopic.php?p=688354#p688354

You are asking for a "Johnny" unit in a topic about a "Timmy" unit.

That said, somewhere along the line we could probably use a "Johnny" topic.

When I first saw the size difference between the megabot and the Delta commander,
I thought "I want my commander to be that noticeable on the battlefield" (even if it makes itself a more obvious target).

I like the suggestions that the megabot is limited to one (per player, or per player/per planet), which may be helped by the (in the one per player scenario) suggestions of turning into a giant commy armoured suit.

Maybe instead of making a new design, you could just upscale your existing commander model design as the template. In other words, if you're using a Theta commander during a game, any megabots you build would automatically be a more gigantic version of the Theta? I'm sure that many of the custom commander customers (CCCs) would like to show off their unique models on a bigger scale...

To offset the possibility of being a "build-one-of-these-first-and-win-the-game" unit, alongside limiting numbers allowed to be built, I suggest making them quite slow to traverse the battlefield. As planets can be massive, it might take a long time to get to an enemy base, meaning they are either used as a mobile main base defence system, or that, if they are used offensively, due to building times/travelling times/size of planet, an enemy can always make a new base elsewhere on the planet before the megatbot arrives.

I also like the suggestions of being able to step on and over obstacles/units, and potentially deforming the terrain. Just add a "Jurassic Park footsteps" sound effect, and I'll be as happy as a pig in sh*t.

For how much metal is usually involved in making an experimental unit, I assume it's more than a battleship. So I would also equate that to being as tall as the battleship is long. I suppose the battleship isn't as wide nor as tall as the bot is. But still, I'm guessing the metal required is in the multiples of a battleship and therefore should be larger. It would be magnificent to see that death machine marching down the line at the height of a battleship's length.

I totaly agree with the dynamic terrain opinion. Maybe even create shelter for smaller units (be cause of the footprints depth).

OT:

I think the size of the experimental is just fine. I think later (with mods) units will be added who are more extreme (and larger) than this one, but that's fine. In my opinion its more important at this time how size matters in comparison to other current units.

What i also would like to see is that every Megabot/Experimantals has its own specialties. We all know the different classes like Anti-Air and Artillery experimentals but i would like to go even further and have a more gameplay interaction between experimentals and T1 and T2 units. In most games experimentals are just giant bots or heroes which have nothing to do with lower tier units.

My suggestion is that they have somehow have a role to support those T1 and T2 units, but not in a way like boosting their armour or rate of fire. Creating shelter or cover for example (like fox-holes in the ground) is in my opinion a good direction to support lower tier units.