Tactical missile and nuke luck shots

I've seen players try to predict unit movements and hit moving targets with tactical missiles and nukes. Sometimes people try to snipe a moving commander with tactical missiles. IMHO this doesn't belong to a RTS game because it is 100% based on luck. If my opponent won by luck shotting my moving ACU with tactical missile, I'd definitely be pissed, because my opponent won because of luck, not because of skill. Every victory should be well earned.

So, to make luck shotting impossible in PA, disable ground attack from tactical missiles and nukes. Please?

I can understand tml as it can allow tml to hit moving targets but nukes I disagree with cause they should be able to go anywhere u want them to.

It's your fault if you leave important units out in the open like that.

Considering the AOE of tactical missiles.

This is really stupid.

If you are getting sniped by tactical missiles then stop walking in straight lines, or use air transports.

Being sniped by tactical missiles just means that the player using them is good, even great at the the game by predicting your movement.


And asking not to be sniped by nukes is more or less asking nukes not to do their job, so that is also really stupid.

If your ACU is moving and people are hitting it with tactical missiles, then it is a case of skill not luck, as they have mentally calculated your speed, the missiles speed, the amount of time the missile will need to travel to target, and your projected path based upon the movements you have shown. "Aim not where the opponent is, aim where the opponent will be."

They are leading the target, which is a skill. In other words, they won the game because of skill. Not because of luck.

If he can hit your moving acu with tactical missiles by calculating the time it will take for the missiles to reach wherever the commander will be, then he has got some serious skills. Saying its all luck is like saying a first person shooter is 100% luck. You should be happy that he's wasting tactical missiles trying to snipe a moving target because its likely hrs going to east the missiles.

Tac missile sniping is completely stupid. Ignoring your commander for a couple seconds while dealing with any other dozen problems was a death sentence. Base slinging duels were also dumb.

Standard artillery will work just fine without shields.

You make it sound difficult to have a scout (or several) patrolling your base at tac missile ranges. It's really just another form of sneak attack.

With that said, I wouldn't mind a change to tac missiles (decrease damage; make it a salvo of missiles with decreased accuracy and damage; etc).

I knew someone would say this and that is not true. It would be skill if you had practiced it many times till you always hit units that move in straight line. But seriously, no one practices that. If you just try it once in a while and hope it hits, it's nothing but luck. Prediction is only 50% skill at max, since you can never be sure how the enemy will move. And if the ACU moves randomly, it's nothing but luck no matter how much you've practiced.

FPS games have some randomness in them with the projectile weapons. But there shouldn't be such things in RTS game.

So, by your logic, people who play (darts/archery/marksman/bowling/shuffleboard/etc) dont have any skill, only luck... Because if they practiced, they would #always# hit their target, so clearly it's only luck when they do.

Totally absurd suggestion. Real projectile physics means don't let your commander eat a missile.

"always" was wrong word to use and my mistake.

But anyway, like I said, if someone practices to do something (like darts/archery/marksman or then hitting moving units with missiles), then it is skill. But the point is: is this kind of skill essential in a RTS game? And in most cases it is not skill, it is just "I'm losing but I hope I accidentally hit with this missile", because players haven't practiced it.

I'd say that if the target is too far away and moving unpredictably and the projectile is too slow (like it is always with tactical missiles when trying to hit moving targets), then it is only prediction.

If you are so paranoid of your commander getting sniped by TMLs and Nukes, then surround him with TMDs, Anti-Nukes and Shields. And if you want to move him use a transport plane.

But really just arbitrarily removing the ability for Missles and Nukes to hit anywhere is absurd.

I'm not sure were you are going with this.
1. Where do you draw the line between luck and skill?
2. Should all units have perfect aim?
3. Should you not be able to dodge projectiles?

2. Many units with high damage and low accuracy existed in TA and SupCom. Big Berthas in TA and t2 and t3 artillery for example.
You could target the enemy commander with them and get lucky and kill the enemy commander or just miss all the time.
There is little to no room for skill here. You can only make a prediction of how likely it is that you will kill the target or not.

3. Projectile dodging have been prevalent in TA and existed somewhat in SupCom as well. It takes skill, attention and micro to perform well. However units might still be lucky and dodge shots by random or the enemy might predict your dodging and fire manually to counter your dodging which in turn also takes skill.

1. I can argue that choosing strategy is a gamble because I might be able to chose the counter to your strategy purely by luck. Is choosing the right strategy skill or luck? Sometimes it can be both.

Sniping a moving commander can be both skill and luck. However if the enemy is aware of it he is very likely to dodge it.

Anyway I kinda agree that TML snipes on the ACU isn't that fun but mostly because realistically missiles would be able to track targets.
But when the mercy was introduced, which is pretty much like a tracking missile, it were totally OP until it got severely nerfed which was because SupCom wasn't balanced for kamikazi units that could hit both land and air.

On a related note:Simulation: How much is too much?

I've tried doing TML play from base to base. The problem is that it doesn't scale. Every missile costs money(little yet significant) and demands its own micro to be effective on the field. With 2 launchers, it's not a problem. With 5 it becomes annoying. To hell with trying to manage a dozen or more. When a pile of weapons demand a skill shot every few seconds, with individual aim and predictions and a need to avoid overkill, there is no time to do anything else.

Not only that, but Tac missiles failed to be effective against the most viable targets for their firepower- experimentals. A 6K shot against moving ground units took some effort and luck, but the efficiency was undeniable. Unfortunately, it could not hit air expis at all. That's just awful.

Individual weapons should have strategic value or be strapped on the Commander. Tactical, micro oriented guns are nothing but a headache.

If I did a TML, it would be both an SMD and an experimental killer. Low-moderate (artillery) range, high cost per shot, constructed ammo, and totally insane d-gun damage. Don't even dream of putting your Comm, or a Krogoth, or a nuke near this weapon, because anything it aims at is dead, gone, vanished, without a trace. But the idea is that every shot has strategic importance(plus the theory that it would have a more dramatic and flashy visual effect to match its importance), rather than the reckless spam demanded by tac launchers.

Well, there are some unavoidable luck based things in RTS. For example:
-Is your opponent having good day or bad day
-How focused your opponent is
-What is the skill level of your opponent
-Like you said:

Then there are unnecessary luck based things like the tactical missile thingy.

I'm not sure what do you mean with perfect aim. If you mean that all the projectiles should hit every time that then I don't think that is a good idea, at least with units like TML. If you mean that the units should be able to aim perfectly at A) the current position of the enemy unit or B) the most probable place where the enemy unit is going to move, then I'm not sure. Basically inaccuracy of artillerys is also luck. However, I don't think it small inaccuracy percent is as much "luck" as ending game with a lucky tactical missile. Most of the time it is only about how long it takes until they hit and it doesn't change the outcome much. I don't mind little inaccuracy in heavy artillery.

I think this should be possible, of course. Most of the projectiles are so fast that you can't dodge them. But you can dodge by moving out of their range or by going behind the obstacles. But a problem with the missiles is that
A) you can't see them unless they're really close
b) even if you see them you can't tell where they're going to land
c) when you see them it is usually too late to dodge or act
So you basically have to dodge before you even see them and hope you avoided your doom. And that's luck.

True. Prediction is a skill. But still, even with perfect prediction skills you can't know where the enemy unit is going to move if you're trying to snipe it with missiles. You only know all the possible places where the unit can move until the missile hits. Then you just roll the dice.

if you know the direction of travel and its speed you can narrow it down significantly.

It's up to the player to determine if it's worth the work of using a TML. This isn't just another artillery piece. It comes down to what you think the unit's role is. You obviously thing it's a more defensive "in your base" structure. I see it as an offensive structure that requires some skill and yes, some luck, to use. You sneak in close to your enemies base, build a TML, and snipe a few key structures or the comm if it's present.

Prediction is a skill with an element of luck. It comes down to what you think you'd do if you were the opponent, what the most obvious choice is for the target to use, etc. It's not luck to accurately predict where someone is going to be.

Nuff said.