Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02)

Hi there!

First off: I'm posting for the first time and haven't been on here very long. The Searchfunction didn't give me much in regard to weather effects. On the Livestream there was the Question if there will be weather effects (http://youtu.be/e0o1nQvAcZM?t=35m19s). I'm also aware of the fact that I'm kind of late with feedback on this ^^

The answer to the question was that this would not be important to gameplay so it wouldn't be done. Of course I do understand that there is a limit to what can be done at launch and that there are far more pressing concerns at the moment.

What I don't understand ist the attitude towards that topic. Eventough the game will be large scale it also will be smallscale to some extent and it is my feeling and always has been, that weather effects add alot to the atmosphere of a game.

There are only a few things that can improve a raging battle between robot armies - a complementary thunderstorm above their heads is one of these things!

I'm a little bit confused especially if you think about what they said about persistant track marks etc. - this would be a first time thing in a game and you've got the engine to make it possible: Rain or Snow altering the way units leave their tracks as opposed to the way they did on unaltered terrain (e.g. normal soil would turn into mud).

Thinking about this you could even take it one step ahead by adding wind that alters these tracks over time depending on the terrain or the snow melting thus removing the tracks alltogether. There doesn't even have to be any kind of effect on the units or anything.

I'm aware that this might not be something that is deemed interesting enough to be put into an RTS game. But it's not only the grand scheme of a game but also these little design details that are very much awe inspiring and can set a game even further apart from it's competitors.

You seem to have the technology, I certainly would love to see a weathersystem implemented (simply because I do love snow and it would be super if there could be something like that - it doesn't have to be completely sensible in regards to the physics behind it like changing seasons eventough that would put it far far far over the top).

It's a cosmetic thing and I think it'll add life to the planets (if there isn't going to be any fauna at all). Please do reconsider implementing a system like that.

Just my thoughts on the topic - How do other users feel about this?

Tl;dr: I think there should be a weather system since it gives a game more depth and atmosphere.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I don't think thunderstorms would be a good idea, would make it difficult to see units past a bunch of clouds.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I think it would be cool to see dynamic weather effects and such eventually...probably not at launch, but down the road.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I can see something down the road but certainly not in the first version. It really is a simple matter of resources. We already don't have time to do justice to every idea we have. It's jus the reality of how expensive it is to build this stuff. Once the game is out and doing well that will give us additional resources to continue to make cool stuff. From a gameplay perspective this stuff is unfortunately very low on the list.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I do think this would make a good atmosphere on the planets. Forgive the pun. lol But I truly think that it can get in the way.

First it would drain resource in development and in the GPU or CPU.

Second it most likely be visually in the way from seeing where the units are and what they are doing. But this probably can be fixed with an option to quickly turn the effect off. Like there could be a cinematic camera mode. And a strategy (normal mode).

I think this would be best as a mod project but I won't complain if it is in the vanilla version and I can see the units easily.

EDIT: Spelling mistakes

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I guess it would be a challange to implement it without obstructing the view on your units, but I do not see that it is a Problem that cannot be solved (i.e. put them into a layer that is just one scroll click with the mousewheele above the highest zoomlevel you could have and boom - no clouds, only sweet rain or snow).

As to the ressources: yes I thought that would be the real problem. As I've stated in my initial Post - there are other things that need attending to (not only money wise but also in regards to time spent on something).

I was simply irritated since the idea was dismissed as something that's not relevant and doesn't add anything usefull so it wouldn't be done.

It would be great to see this as a mod, but I'd love to have it from the Devteam itself. The reason why is that it shows a great amount of love for detail which is very important to me. If a developer is committed to its product these seemingly minor changes get their place alongside planetary weaponary and such.

Of course it would be enough to see this as a Patch later on or as a mod.

This being said. Why aren't there any snowplanets announced? Or are they? I'd love to get me all the Hoth's as my prestige Project each game :>

EDIT: I just saw in the confirmed features list that there will be ice planets. Good stuff :>

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

This would be a very immersive element to the game which I think is worth adding however it evidently isn't of high priority and there are many ways to work around the clouds or visibility issues. For example, clouds could be at a particular height and at which you're viewing icons which won't be transparent and therefore stand out.

I really would like to see at least some kind of weather in this game, it's always nice to see wind dragging along deserts and rain pounding down on the plains. Heck, even some waves upon the oceans would be great, especially if they actually impacted with the ships and made them rock.

I can easily see weather making an entrance in this game but what kind of depth would it go to is the question. I love to see snow covered/dripping wet buildings and suchlike but would that suit the style? With clunky, square robots is it worth going to that detail?

Personally, even if you're going for the 'Toy Robots' approach I'd appreciate some details and effects. SOME though, I would really like a working game with plenty of toys to get blown up first.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

Totally agree. And as you said: It would add quite a lot and especially thinking of Machinima and replays there is plenty of time to enjoy a close up look at a bulky robot being covered in raind, snow or even dust! Whilst you're going to have permanent marks upon planets surfaces Some semipermanent effects on the Hulls of your war machinery would put you lightyears ahead of anybody else.

I don't like units that have only three or so damage models and can be repared to look brand new. Of course these are extreme details which might take quite a toll on a gaming rig (but with an option to turn them off you could have it, if your system was up to it!). Buuut this is going a little bit off topic. I'm just so impressed with the engine you're doing and it would be a shame if there weren't some purely atmospheric details added.

Still on the question of visibility: There are RTS Games with Weather effects and clouds. If you look at R.U.S.E. you can turn those of which actually helps because the clouds are quite heavy. I usually do not have them turned on but that's only because they are poorly implemented in regards to visibility.

I think there are a lot of solutions that could even have an Strategic impact. Some thoughts on the matter of visibility and possible solutions (I know this is talking purely hyperthetical):

• 1. The Cursor has an area around it (close up to the edges of the screen) which makes clouds completely disappear but not the rain/snow/thunder effects.

• 2. Each unit and building gets lights added (come on! they move in space! Space is usually dark! They have to have lights) which clear the visibility - maybe even skylights/searchlights against airforces which do clear clouds

• 3. Obviously the option to turn these effects on and off - off for purely competitive gameplay would be the best choice I guess. I don't think this will be the greater part of the playerbase though.

• 4. Additionally to any of these suggestions: The clouds can be scrolled past so you only have the pure weather effects without clouds obstructing the view in any way

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I hope you guys keep in mind that out there in the universe "weather" usually means metal grinding storms that can cover entire continents with enough static electricity to fry all airplanes and disable radars - or no atmosphere. And "rain" doesn't necessarily mean water. It can be everything from liquid methane to molten iron! (Yes, it can "rain" iron on brown dwarfs.) And that little "lightning" might be a gamma ray burst that strips your commander of a couple of inches of his hardened shell.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

Don't forget the extra strong acid that'd slowly eat away all of the armour on everything underneath it over time...

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I don't really care about the weather as long as I can turn it off or if it won't obstruct the view when zoomed out a lot.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

Sounds even more awesome, fun and immersive! Obviously what we were thinking of should be planettype apropriate.

As to what the commander and other units can endure: I think that natural causes would be the least of their worries. Remember that they have adapted over thousands of years to become the most durable and perfect fightingmachines in existence. I don't think that a few hardships however harsh they may seem to us would have been an oversight in that process.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I'd really love dynamic weather effects in the game.

Even if for starters it's just different coloured distance fog on the planets.

Clouds would be neat too, and they should be on by default. Serves to increase immersion, and may even help create that sense of other you get when seeing cloud formations on Mars from the NASA photos and such.

People who complain about them obscuring view... DEAL WITH IT .

If you're commanding armies from the sky, they should be expected.

It would also serve to obscure telescopes, spy sats and whatever else Uber is cooking up in regards to intel gathering too.

Somewhere down the line I would like to see dynamic sand and snow and rain that effects vehicle handling. I know many seem to be against the idea in the forum, but it just makes sense to me. I get the impression that they are the kind of people who want shields in the game so they can endlessly turtle too, who want things to be regular and boring and have the game pander to them.

If were gonna have vehicles that move at set speed at all times we might as well just have boring hover cubes that play like something out of Starcraft.

I'd also like to see rare in game events like Volcanoes and earthquakes as well.

Yes, I'd be okay if my commander fell in a crack that opened up and I lost the game, because you know, the universe is a harsh place to exist. Life (or existence if we're talking about robots) isn't easy. Call it natural selection. AI's should be subject to that too.

Going back to key parts of the game that should affect weather though - dropping meteors on planets and nukes. They should eject dust into the atmosphere and change the weather.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

i'm more of a casual player maybe, so i agree with that, the sky should not always be crystal clear, sometimes there should be rain, snow or sandstorm hindering your sight, but sometimes it could also be lightning toasting aircrafts, volcanoes erupting and stuff like that =D

that would be interesting to use the weather in a strategic way, for example you could take advantage of a thunderstorm to launch a ground attack without worrying about enemy aircrafts, that would be cool

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I can see smoke and pollution playing a large role against air power. One of the key survival techniques for the London Blitz was that bombers had a hard time finding their target. The lights were out and no one moved, making things hard to find. If there was a thick fog covering the land, then there was no hope of hitting the target.

In PA, smoke/chaff/debris can easily occlude vision from the sky, and may prove an excellent defense system for bases. If air units can't see it, then they can't stage an effective attack. Either you will need direct spotters on the ground, or to use low flying gunships, which get direct LoS with the enemy. Bomb cameras can also pierce the fog of war, helping bombers discern where the real targets are.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

:| Honestly, i don't give a care about whether there is or isn't weather effects.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

It is curious that you were unable to find any threads on weather effects. Just off a cursory search I found these threads, perhaps they would be of interest:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=35075&hilit=weather

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=37126&start=0&hilit=weather

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=37561

The other thing I would ask is why should this not be in the general discussion where more people can contribute to the discussion?

That said:

This pretty well sums up my thoughts on it. I would really like to have dynamic (cosmetic) weather effects on planets. Snow or sand blow around on ice/desert planets, rain on a jungle planet, electrical storms on gas giants. However I wont mind if it isn't present in release given that Uber's time will have been spent on features which impact game play directly.

That said I also would not mind if a planet type had an effect on gamplay as a result of the conditions. Already it sounds as though resources could vary based on planet type. It would be interesting to see certain unit effects as well. Off the top of my head, naval units could move slower on an icy planet (provided it still had oceans) due to icebreaking, or jungle planets could result in slower ground unit movement because of undergrowth. That way the conditions of a planet could affect a players capabilities and decision making, but would do so equally to all players on that planet and not have it come down to a random weather event. I'm getting a bit off topic now however, my apologies.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

Apart from the last one the other two were not exactly what I was asking for. And yes I really used the search function and didn't get the last thread, only the first two which weren't my point since I was thinking (initially) more of cosmetic effects.

Also I was talking directly in regards of the livestream where the statement sounded like there was no chance whatsoever of seeing anything like it at any point (which has been clarified in this thread).

As to general discussion: I chose the Backers Lounge because in at least one livestream they mentioned this forum when it came to direct feedback and their recognition of that feedback. And as we all know: Money talks a little bit louder than pure enthusiasm (with which I do not think that apart from what anybody here paid or backed for we deserve to be listned to more than others, but generally this is how it works).

Well I think it's still on topic. I think these conditions would be great also from a strategical view. Do I go for this or that type of planet and accept whatever negative effect I get, or do I move on for a milder climate of a planet that is not ideally placed?

What I wonder is: Would it be that much more difficult to add such effects to existing cosmetic weather effects? Let's say they decide to create only visual effects without any penalty or anything like that. Would it be easy to add any gameplay impacts lateron?

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

I'm definitely not a game developer, nor am I working on their engine so I cant say with surety, but I don't think that the speed examples I gave would be hard to implement. I think it would be more a question of testing the effects to see if it had impacts that had not been envisioned, I guess the difficulty of implementation would depend on what kind of effects were being put in.

This said one of their goals in the development of the engine was to ensure that it is open and very mod friendly. I dont think that future implementation would be too much of an issue considering what the mod community can do to games that are not build from the ground up to support modding.

On a preference note, I dont like invisible modifiers and that sort of thing, so if any such effects to be put into the game I would want them to make sense from a common sense perspective, and the precise effects made visible to the player. This could perhaps be in a small bio of the planet that pops up when it is selected, we already know that planets are going to be named so that could work. Then a player knows before they land on it the impacts that environment is going to have.

Re: Dynamic Weather Effects? - Response to Livestream (08.02

Adding cool graphics are all nice and they have there place.

Extra features in my opinion, weather especially needs to be made into a game-play mechanic. Usable by the player.
e.g. acid raid, could create lakes of acid that can dissolve units.

Or these examples from Natural events that hamper your strategy what some of these example lack though is usability by the player: