Required server hardware question

If it is true that we need to buy dedicated servers in order to play this is a major drawback.
I rather would have a optimized synced game then without the need for external hardware and monthly fees.

I hope uber can comment on the disadvantages that come with their server system, because until I thought a bit more about this i thought it would be a perfect solution.

LOL

To my understanding anybody can host a server on his local machine. Given a good connection and a powerful machine, that is. Many people have these, though.
So the remaining problem is, what happens if the host of a 3h game dies in minute 5.
I think this could actually be solved by seperating the server-software from the client-software. This is something that is done anyway, since a server-machine will probably not have a need for any kind of client-side-stuff. In fact the server-programm-package might be quite small since it doesn't even need to contain 3d-models, sounds and stuff.

So make the server a stand-alone program with a slim-gui or command line interface.
If 8 players want to play a game, one of them (with the adequate connection + machine) starts up a server on his machine.

After that all players (including the one who provides his machine as server, networking-wise he just connects to localhost) start up the client and join the server. The "server"-player therefore can just quit his client at any time, he just has to let the server online so the other players can play on. He could even start the client again and play on some other server. If his machine is a true monster he might even host another server.

Sure you are still depending on the server-player to be a nice guy and not just rage-quit-shutdown his whole machine.
But that's just how it is.

Thats how it is?
What about people ragequitting?
What happens if this person gets a disconnect? In germany the most common internet connection is DSL which comes with a 24hour disconnect.
And I dont think you can have multiple games running in the background without performance drain.

Currently it sounds like going back to Stone Age. I mean there was a reason to make a peer to peer connection for rts games.

Sure multiple servers on one normal machine are probably unrealistic, but splitting up the server and the client should not really put much more of a strain on the "nondedicated"-server as having the server and the client inside one process.

In the case of a disconnect the clients could wait for the server to announce its new ip via the master-server.

And if you play with rage-quitting-hosts it is your fault.
I really can't see much of a problem, even if my suggestions or similar solutions are not implemented. But I am looking at it from the perspective of "hey lets play 1v1", so am I biased in a way.

We know how to run servers. This isn't an issue. The system is far far far superior to a peer-to-peer type setup.

can you already explain what will happen if the server host leaves the game? (and he is hosting locally?)

He gets blacklisted as a crappy LAN host and no one will ever come to his future LAN parties.

Online? He gets blacklisted as a crappy server, and no one will use it.

This system works for every single game with dedicated servers. Good servers rise straight to the top, with admins ranging between reliable and awesome. It hasn't been an issue yet.

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A slightly bigger issue is having an admin abuse his hosting privileges to cheat. But hey. Blacklist. Works like a charm.

I had my own post explaining in more detail but you've summed it up.

"Hosting locally" isn't something that exists or that happens automatically. The only time someone will be a host is when they actually setup a dedicated server. So whether they are in the game or not doesn't matter. If they shut down the server the game goes away, so don't play on servers run by idiots.

okay but this not the answer to bhaals concern, which I share partially.

Imagine its 2018-2020. No official servers anymore. Nearly no servers hosted by private guys, that are available for the public. => no dedicated servers available. what do players do to play? (except buying a server what is quite expensive)
Til now I thought players could host a game and both be player and server on the same computer. Is that correct?
If so, what happens if a small community group like Forged Alliance Forever, which is now called PAForever ind 2020 makes it possible to play games.
A player called douche_bag hosts a game i.e. opens a server on his computer, and is playing in the game on the same time. Now he gets killed in the game, and he decides its no fun to watch the game until all 20 players are dead. He leaves, ruining the game for everybody else. What might happen then?

what is interesting is the question will you be able to play in 10 years when no dedicated servers are available without much trouble?

Doesn't this mean that anybody can just set up a server:

You can be host if you set up a dedicated server. I doubt that the "dedicated" server will disallow you from running it on the same machine that you use to run the client.
As host you just have to first start some program that is the server and afterwards you start the game's client and connect to your server.

that's directly answered above you:

Don't join the game of this player called douche_bag then
Also remember that he not just has to leave the game, but he has to stop the server, which doesn't happen automatically just by leaving. So he has to be a real douche_bag to stop a server that 20 people still play on.

Also the idea of a blacklist actually sounds pretty nice to me. Make it kinda like playertrack from FA: People who host games just to quit the server after 5 minutes get bad votes and nobody will join their servers anymore.

I dont know how many games can be hosted on one server. But from what you said the gamescale is only limited by the server.
Which would mean if you want to play with nearly no slowdown in simspeed you need 1 server for each game.
Or do you actually want to limit the game depending on how many games are running at the same time?

That would basically mean 1 game = 1 server.
So how should this work for thousands of players?
Where does the money come from to pay for such a big cluster?

Maybe those are stupid questions but from my perspective it makes a lot sense to ask them.

We can barely afford something like FAF but it would be impossible to have a community server cluster.

FA makes every single player do the sim-work.
PA makes a single player do all the sim-work for everyone else. That person should be reliable.

In addition, instead of putting this burden of being the server on one of the players, you can run a server somewhere in the cloud. But that is not needed to play the game.

If you want an example, look at Minecraft (even though the tech is completely different)

When you start a singleplayer game in minecraft, it starts up the server component behind the scenes, and your 'client' (on the same machine) connects to it. Then you can say "Make visible to LAN" and then that exact same server is available on the lan for others to join.

Then, in addition to this, you have a 'standalone server' download, which lets you skip the whole client bit, and run your own server which is available for clients to connect.

AND THEN, you have companies who specifically offer packages to host your own minecraft server on *their* hardware.

So there are plenty of options and nothing to worry about.


Except.


Uber.. can you have a dedicated server host in Perth? Pretty please?

I am quiet sure the reason for the dedicated server is to get large number of people playin at once more then pere 2peer

Can any one confirm if i am right ?

You are correct - with peer to peer, each person added to the game means a larger network load for ALL players. With hosted servers, each person added only adds to the server's network load.

It's a lot easier to ensure one server has sufficient bandwidth as opposed to making sure 8 players have sufficient bandwidth!

What you are describing is called "the apocalypse". You will have greater problems finding canned beans and clean water, rather than dealing with a lack of servers.

Computers in 2018-2020 will be faster, stronger, and have (given a non-stagnant monopoly) better internet. As hosting a game becomes easier, more people can run their home computers as dedicated servers with no issue. Hell, you could simply host it yourself! That's how a lot of admins get started.

Old games have jumped into the new millennium thanks to connection services like Gameranger. I dare you to find a multiplayer game that people play, which does not have a list of servers.

Keep in mind that we will run enough servers to make sure people can play the game. We can dynamically spin them up in the cloud on an hourly basis if we need more, in addition to the server farm we already have going. So nobody has to worry about running a server unless they want to have more control over the game. It's just that a lot of people seem to want that control.

If during a fierce match of 5-6 hours , the admin of the dedicated server drops asteroids on all the planets just for the lulz, i will be really pissed :|

Then you know never to go back there and black list them
Or just go with Official Uber servers.