Engineers that can build mobile units?

I apologize if someone has already suggested this, but I just came up with this idea:



Engineer unit that is capable of building mobile units. This engineer would be something like sACU in Supreme Commander and it could build mobile units the same way experimentals are built.

This makes sense because this engineer unit obviously has the required technology to make mobile units by itself. So why are factories needed? Why do things the hard way when you things more easily?

Its a "Make tools to make tools" arguement. Since this human can build a robot arm that can build a car, why do i need the robot arm when i can just use the human?

Factories are streamlined into doing the same thing over and over again. What your talking about is your local mechanic building every car you drive and see on the road. i have no doubt they would be good at it, but they would be overworked.

I agree that engineers should be able to build some high end units and assist in production, but the land required to set up a production que would be emmence.

It adds interesting new options I think. Should definately be considered. Probably needs to be a specialized unit though.

It's not a good idea. It's not that engineers can't be effective at such a role. Rather, the problem is that it's very difficult to automate. If a single unit gets in the way, or something else were to happen, then the process stops.

There are also tech tree issues with having a single unit that could potentially build everything. Too many options at once is overwhelming and makes lots of UI clutter.

0K and BA both have these, they are similar to mobile factories, except they can reclaim or assist other things.

I'm having a hard time seeing a point, it seems like just building a factory would be at least as efficient(if not more efficient) and takes up less of my time over all. This is especially true when you consider that by mid game armies could end up being composed of hundreds of units.

Mike

The main use of those units is to build stuffs in risky or hostile places, for example, there is a unit in 0K called Athena, it's a cloakable air engineer with a radar jammer, and it can build mobile units, you could use it to sneak into the back side of enemy base, build some stuffs there and cause some unexpected havoc etc.

There isn't a great gameplay reason for this, but I am the guy who suggested we remove the atom bomb mushroom cloud soooo......

Engineers who are out and about should generally be guarded or be in a location that's safe, and with the ability to build a low level turret like the LLT or T1 PD then security becomes a letter issue.

Generally engineers are support units for the base and front line, keeping things running and expanding the base, along with resource acquisition along the way.

While I am not a fan of the engineer spam that is SupCom, the ability for engineers to build additional engineers in the field could be a nice feature, and would save factory's form changing their build Que.

Kinda like bacteria dividing this could allow engineers to self propagate when more workers are required, especially in situations like moon and asteroid landings, where space for factory's is at a minimum.

Regardless of whether or not it would fit with the units and flow of the game, I'd hope they at least design the underlying structure so that ANY unit can be built while on the move. Think of the Czar from Supcom.. they had some fairly clunky workarounds to get it working.

So engineer building capabilities should be at least:

- Can build units directly
- Can build units while on the move
- Can build units on top of other units

Where a unit is a structure or a mobile.


I'd like to be able to design a floating fortress that can move, upon which I can have engineers that build structures and factories... which produce units as my fortress moves.

That moves on to a whole new set of topics, and is most likely not was was in the mind of the dev's.

But as before, I am one to talk, so continue.

I was looking to make a mod such as this idea. My idea was that the commander and any engineer can build ANY structure or unit no matter the tech level it is at. The only difference was that if they wanted to make a higher tech structure or mobile unit it would come at a higher cost and a longer build rate. That is, the most efficient use of the commander or engineer was to build structures at their tech level and below. A factory would be the most efficient at building mobile units at its tech level and below. The higher the tech level the more costly it is and the longer it will take.

As an example, a T1engineer unit can build a T1 tank, but in doing so it takes 20% more mass, energy, and time. I had an idea that it cannot just sit there and pump out tanks, because it would need to build supports that hold the unit while it is fabricating (where in a factory those supports are not needed). When the tank pulls away all that extra mass will sit there and would need to be reclaimed, if you want to build a tank in the same spot. If it wants to build a T2 tank, the cost would now be 45% and keeps growing exponentially as the tech level rises.

I saw this as another possible strategy for sneak attacks or when your production has been destroyed and still be in the game, but it will cost you. It can also lead to some interesting starting builds (Monkeylord first).

monkeylord first? Seriously? Really? REALLY?



I'm walking away from the kb now.

Fine. You spend your first hour building a monkey lord while I spend my first 5 minutes building a dozen T1 tanks to destroy your engies. Don't forget to use that exponentially growing economy that you haven't built yet to fund your exponentially higher costing experimental.

With how much we know at the moment I'll split this idea in to three aspects.

Engine
Within the engine I think any constructor should be able to build anything. There is precedent of people using this feature in modding. I don't see any reasonable argument against it as building mobiles with mobiles is not complex as far as coding is concerned.

PA Gameplay
This deals with the unmodded game. The inclusion of this feature has obvious effects but I am not going to say anything conclusive so I don't feel like explaining them. As far as I can see this feature is neither game breaking or required for PA to be a good game. Until we have most of the rest of the game I can't say whether this fits or not.

Interface
The main issue we can discuss with this feature is the UI for mobile unit construction. With engineer based construction it is difficult to support the full order queuing UI available for factories. It should at least be possible to repeat build a unit type, this means units should move out of the way when completed.

I never used mobile factories in FA (with exception of carriers, which are rare occasion) ever. And most dumb and unusable mobile factory was Megalith with his eggs. I dunno why you want it - you just got more micro and less production. You may just place your factory, make engi assist it and you got better speed than engi alone. You start building a lot of factories and over time you got much better speed then engi alone. And in case you have a lot of engies, than (due to jams and all the mess engies are doing during crowd-building) building a factory and assisting it instantly is one-top-best option.

P.S. Also, salvaging your own factories which you don't need anymore could be a nice eco boost, if used properly.

as nice as the idea sounds of building mobile units with engineers, I find a factory to still be the better option.

If you can have it on a mode to keep pumping out units then all you've got to do is build closer to the enemy base and keep it defended with these units you're creating right?

Now I love the idea of having a mobile factory but surely it would need some sort of tweak, such as it takes a few seconds longer to build seen as it can travel and build.

man this feels out of place as I've not looked here for a while.

Well I have no idea why you would want to build units with an engineer.

Think about the premise of a factory. It is a facility for the sole purpose of mass production of units. It is not mobile because of the rate at which it can produce units. It does not produce buildings and even if it could - like in SupCom2 - They would have to be add ons like AA and such like.

Engineers should never be able to build units at the rate a factory can and I would personally argue that aside from maybe building experimentals, which was done away with in SupCom2 by building them in gantries, they shouldn't be able to build units at all. The fact that they are mobile would make it possible to reinforce your front line constantly without having to deal with any logistics at all.

Now baring the above in mind, if an engineer cannot build units at the rate a factory can, when would it ever be viable to do so? Surely when players are wishing to build units they are not going to want to build one or two. The scale of PA demands mass production. Therefore building a factory will always be the most practical solution. If you want your engineer to contribute their build power to help build units then perhaps they would be better off assisting.

The anomalous element in this discussion is the Fatboy. Though the fatboy was mobile (and had massive guns and a shield to boot) it could also knock out units at a fair rate. It could even produce T3 at a hefty rate, but it was an experimental unit after all. It does however beg the question, would you rather see another incarnation of the fatboy or an engineer that can build units?

I wouldn't mind Engineers been able to replicate themselves, Just their tech level mind you, not say a T1 building a T2 Engineer.

Allowing Engineers to mass produce combat units just seems cheesy to me.

Re: Engineers that can build mobile units?I

I would like to see a unit like the FA Fatboy. I'm generally opposed to experimentals due to the obsolescence issue, but the Fatboy is a more thoughtful and strategic weapon than the other grounds XPs (which were all just point and shoot). Being much more vulnerable due to size, speed, HP and its comparative lack of close-range DPS it is a much easier unit to include and have balanced.

And I love its factory capabilities too, although it would be nice if it could build on the move, or at least remember its build queue.