Planetary Assaults and Interstellar Transportation

1) I'm glad I missed the whole dropship. Even though I too can't wait to send my dropships to other planets.

2) I'm pretty much in agreement with what OrangeKnight as said about this except:

Why can't transports/dropships drop units from space? I don't see how it'd be unbalanced since individual units would be under the same heat as the dropship (potentially more so if the enemy has flak). I just think it would be an interesting option: unload on planet or unload in orbit. *dreams of units raining from the sky*

Also, it'd be nice if the RG could launch factories onto other planets. Not saying it's good idea, I just like the idea (but everyone likes their own ideas after all).

I had thought about it, but ultimately rejected it for my systems for a couple of reasons;

1] Dropships dropping Drop Pods leads a fair bit of overlap with Unit Cannon(which are basically the same delivery system in the end)

2] While Cool, a Dropship Drop Pod Mechanic would have to be handled differently in terms of counters, for me I see Drop Pods as a quick entry system, and would make AA fairly in-effective against it and along with a few other considerations(like would my defense satellites have to be toned down due to increased exposure by Dropships?)

I think it could be made to work, I just don't see it fitting it with my proposed system.

Mike

1) Since unit-cannons only work from moons to planet in your system, there's not really any overlap. Unless dropships are cheaper than unit cannons (they shouldn't be) then there's no advantage to use a dropship from the moon to a planet instead of the unit cannon.

2) If it's an option, it would be up for the player to decide. The way I see it, dropping from orbit would be a "hot drop": Units can be attacked on the way down, but in return, they're active sooner (don't have to be deployed from the transport). The player would have to consider orbital defenses, AA, and the on going land war (if any) when choosing their course of action. Of course, this depends on the unloading mechanism you imagine; if it's faster to land on planet and deploy, then my point is moot.

Yes they should you're saying a unit that can(depending on the exact implementation) possibly shoot an entire army at a local planet should be cheaper than the unit can care only carry a limited number of units, has to travel, deal with defenses(possibly) and make a return trip before it can embark more units?

Going from Moon to planet, the Unit Cannon should be better, that's what it was designed for. but anything beyond that range the Dropship is the best(if only) tool.

The point is that Drop Pods should be by their nature hard to counter, they are purpose built, fast one-way tickets to the ground, maybe a little inaccurate but otherwise really good at what their design for, AA weapons design to shred planes shouldn't be overly effective(if they can even track something going that fast, and even if they can they won't have much time to shoot) against, then as it's what they were designed to endure.

Like I said, I think it can work, but not within the framework I set out for my proposal.

Mike

My biggest concern with dropping units from space (aka high orbit) is the balance side. A transport ship with no aggressive capability is meant to be a weack point, something to be protected. The devs have said no space combat so the only place to shott them is in proximity of a planet. If they had to land then it would give a window of vulnerability/opportunity which would help counter a swarm of these things dropping a full-popcap army on your planet as a beachhead.

Whilst the velocity may be high the transversal will be low, as they're travelling mainly vertically. Anything below them will have an easier time tracking them than if they were travelling horizontally. I also don't think they're required though, just drop the units from space, realism be damned.

Anti-orbital weaponry as another type of defensive asset, relatively similar to anti-air. And anti-air might become effective at lower altitudes.

I actually think it would be really awesome to have an orbital assault on a position, vertically. Units are raining down, some of them being destroyed during the drop and crashing down, others landing scattered and being picked off by the defenders' organized forces before they can rally. The attacker is trying to collect their ragtag forces being dropped all over the map into a semblance of order while the defender is trying to keep them disorganized, and eliminate them as quickly as possible.

Orbital insertion pods would be a good method to make this happen. Drop-capable units would not require pods. Other units would need pods, which make it more expensive to drop them, and which requires you have pods on hand in the launching unit or structure. You could also build units-qua-pods which crash down and act as static units, such as turrets or protective bunkers.

Maybe the idea on that whole drop mechanic thing is indeed worth expanding... aggressively dropping field assets like turrets and such (if shields had not been refused by the devs already, I would say dropping 'offensive shields generators' would be cool) is actually an idea that has merit. You could have a broad range of special droppable buildings, like 'assault factories', 'assault walls' 'assault repair stations'... just brainstorming here, don't beat me if those are silly^^
Whilst this is technically speaking a little off topic, I think it might be worth taking a brief digression on that topic. If it turns out to be worth keeping the idea it could influence the further discussion on dropping units from orbit.

After I proved my point, I tried to return this thread to the topic by reiterating my ideas for an Interplanetary Transport ship, but then all of the ignorant crybabies here started a juvenile flame war about the Dropship in a desperately transparent attempt to salvage whatever dignity they imagined they had.

Regardless if I intentionally derailed this thread or not, my points are valid.

A simple and straightforward IP Transport is much better than an unnecessarily complex Dropship-and-Carrier-combo, because it would work just like transports in TA and SupCom: the player loads units, flies it to the destination, and unloads them. SIMPLE. What's the point of loading transports on to larger transports? I don't recall that being in TA or SupCom (or any RTS that comes to mind).

And don't forget, the OP wanted THREE levels of transports -- Carriers loaded with Dropships loaded with Air Transports loaded with Units -- crammed inside each other like Russian Nesting Dolls! (He even created a diagram of it!) That was just absurd. And it seemed cruel to Uber to even suggest it.

An IP Transport is just a larger version of a conventional Air Transport that we're all familiar with from both TA and SupCom, except it would use the interplanetary travel UI (just like the Rocket Gantry and Asteroid Engines) seen in the KS trailer to select the destination planet (moon, etc.). I don't see how anyone could object to something as elegantly simple, which uses design elements already seen in PA and the games that inspired it.

I believe that SCOUTING is the answer to this. I mean, what was the best counter to any and every Experimental and Game-Ender from SupCom? Knowing that your opponent(s) was/were building them! So you had time to prepare a counter (ideally).

So the player needs to scout the enemy's planet before executing an invasion. That just seems logical to me, unless you're "leap before you look" person.

If there are orbital defences (as in defensive weapons in-orbit) and anti-orbital weaponry (surface installations that fire at enemies in orbit), then presumably there will be counters for them. I'm certain Uber understands that.

But even if Interplanetary Transport ships simply had to breach the enemy's AA defensives and suffer losses, that just seems like part of the game. I mean, the Allies' amphibious and airborne invasion of Normandy wasn't bloodless. The player will have to accept losses. (BTW, it seems crazy to even have to say that, because we're talking about an RTS game here!)

Returning to scouting and what I mentioned in a previous post: The player should scout the enemy's planet ahead of time and locate a safe landing zone. The interplanetary travel UI from the KS trailer showed three different targets for the asteroid KEW, so probably each planet will have a few pre-determined Landing Zones (probably the same as the Player Spawn locations), and the player should scout them to find a safe one.

Maybe a bold (or foolish) player might invade with overwhelming force and try to deploy their units directly into the enemy's base -- but I don't think that would be a good idea.

Regarding the issue of IP Transports being unarmed, why? Air transports in SupCom had basic weapons. A IPT could have a few air-to-air and/or air-to-ground pea shooters.

Even if there isn't space combat, IPTs could be escorted by combat aircraft that they bring with them. There's no particular reason why an IP Transport couldn't be loaded with aircraft, and launched once the transport arrives in the planet's atmosphere. And if anyone has a serious problem with that, why not an Interplanetary Aircraft Carrier? (It seems redundant IMO, but whatever.) There were flying aircraft carriers in SupCom and SupCom2, so why not? The only difference would be that it could travel between planets, just like an IPT. Or, if you want to go all in for Planetary Assaults: Interplanetary Fighters, Bombers, and even Gunships! They could escort IPTs, and engage enemy aircraft once they reach the contested planet. Again, NO space combat, but IF Fighters could fight on planets just like any aircraft. And depending on how orbital combat and units work, maybe in orbit too.

So the issue of balancing a planetary assault seems straightforward to me: The player does their homework (SCOUT!); the enemy defender will probably have formidable defences; and the invading player just has to accept that they will suffer losses, and sends enough units and transports to get the job done.

There is so much I want to say, but my sould has already been sucked dry in this thread.

All I will say is, if I wanted to scouted another planet, I would build a telescope.

I go away for a week and look what happens!

no one system is not enough in my opinion they can pull off galactic war single player then they can do it multiplayer and if not as close as possible

i have an idea for interstellar transit the (sorry i forgot the name) blue guys from sup com 1 building thing backwards or the aeon building animation backwards and when at place then it goes forwards

I think you should build those transports to get to new planets/system, and after if you've established a base on the new planet you can then build teleporters to shorten time.
It should cost alot of energy to teleport units however -> you can't transport tons off units from a metal planet.

think of it like this, your planet is under heavy assault and your defenses are not holding them off and you are losing the planet's control so what do u do?, you take your remaining forces and commander and go out into the darkness of space and find a planet that your enemy does not know or have any of his planets next to them and build your base and forces to retake your planet and to wipe out the enemy who took your planet with a more powerful empire, think of it like the sith from star wars the old republic when their race was almost destroyed they took what remained and left into the darkness of space and took over a planet that no one knew about and built their forces back up and just attacked the hole galaxy

but what about point defense systems? i assume that anti missile point defense will be included and these would be incredibly effective against drop pods

what about:
air transport is only for planetoid it is constructed on, travels in air level. is unarmed but carries slightly more units than a drop ship

rocket pod is for one way indivual trip to orbiting/close planetoid. can be shot by point defense

unit cannon is for mass one way tickets (drop pods) to orbiting/close planetoid. pods can be shot by point defense

dropship is for getting to and from orbiting/medium far planetoids, moves in high air/low orbit layer (or maybe just orbit) has a small point defense gun on rear

carrier (experimental type) is able to hold a number of air units including transports and able to make longer journeys to the most distant plantoids in the solar system it is created in. it is built and stays in orbit and could have light anti orbit only weapons.

you can effectively wage interplanetary full solar system warfare at the dropship level but it relys more on covert engi/hitsquad drops due to the cost of dropships/carry capacity. You can also now invest in a large metal project that can really carry a full army of units loaded in air transport from any point in the solar system to any other point. while big and expensive and awesome it should not have very cost efficient hit point values and be quite vulnerable to much less metal worth of anti orbital weapons. this preseves the role of intel and requires you to be careful with your shiney army relocator.

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it would also segway nicely into inclusions of orbital attack vessels that can effectively defend areas from dropships and carrier.
like a corvette.
and maybe a long range exploration ship that could spot good place to land.
like a frigate.
for tier two you could have a missile based vessel that is good at engaging enemy aerial units and lightly bombarding the surface.
like a cruiser.
and a counter to it with a big slow firing laser cannon that murders big vessels like carriers and cruisers but has a much harder time against mobs of smaller units.
like a destroyer.
and hell, why not throw in am expensive slow to build ship in the lategame that can deal big sustain barrage damage to surface targets below it and orbital targets but is outranged by cruisers and destroyers in orbit to orbit combat.
like a battleship.

end of space navy propaganda... for now
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You do realize this thread is from a year ago right?

Mike

looks to be still valid as these features aren't implemented? didnt check the dates

topic overall may be valid, but opinions can change over a year.

Mike