Factions: How to create diversity within one unit list

Ah, forgive me. Your most recent post before page 6 was on page 3. I haven't been keeping track of who's been posting.

I didn't realize you had posted before, and thought you were instead entering this discussion with the argument that it made you angry.

The "Pick your stuff from a large varity of units" is not bad by default. Wargame EE - what is a really good online RTS - did it that way, with ~350 units (no buildings involved). For each kind of unit (arty, tank, support....) there is a little pool of units where u can pic your faforites into a limited deck. BUT, there are still 2 factions, NATO and Packt. In my opinion it's necessary for immersion to fight against an opponent that plays a different role in the war than you and have its own identity.

I dont like the Uber way to say "They are all robots, they share the same technology and go for the war for the same reasons". Thats mutch too simple. From that point you can also question "Why is this war then happening if they are the same? Is it just because they don't like each other? Come on they are robots they don't care about feelings." Diversity is needed for immersion.

Back to the Wargame EE example. Picking units into a deck ("faction") is also poison for people that are new to the game. I ve seen so many matches where unexperienced players just had a bad set of units along with em what brings frustration because u loose. So the need to pic your units makes the game everything but accessable. I will have no problem with that, but many others will. The question is, do you care about them?
At the end they will be your teammates and you will see the result.

Even so, not all posts are arguments. It's just a statement I believe to be true - if a vocal minority succeeded in convincing Uber to implement a mechanism whereby I am forced to choose some units that I will be forbidden to build, before even beginning the game, I would be angry. Angry that the game was harmed, that my opportunities to think and react were restricted in a strategy game, that a deckbuilding metagame was harming the REAL game, the one I care about. I wasn't asking anyone to feel the same way just because I stated how I would feel.

I just feel like you'll already have everything you want, because players simply will not build the same units and have the exact same strategies. TA and SupCom make that clear. BAM, diversity! From the players, where it should come from! You bring your "unit list" (the initial idea of what you're going to build) into the game, I'll bring mine, but don't remove my ability to change strategies mid-game! Just, why? Why would you shackle me like that?

Apologies if it seemed I was coming on strong. I feel like nothing that has been argued against this idea ITT has been understood, and it the concept keeps being brought up by just a few people. Mainly you and sokolek, it seems.

I thought that was made clear in the concept trailer. There is no noble purpose anymore. Everyone who has a *reason* for this war is dead - now it's all for "a purpose long forgotten", and "the age of humanity is long past". And besides, it's not like armies go to war because they have different-looking tanks. It's because they have conflicting purposes, regardless of the tools they use. And in this very drawn-out conflict, all sides converged on the same optimal tools.

I'd imagine there's not even any trace of the original alliances or groups involved, having been buried in a long history of splinter groups, rebellions, and new alliances.

This may be a better poll. It strips each idea down to its basic concept, and groups them based on similar intent.

Only three options, so should give a more obvious consensus.

I will say this, sstagg1: I'd be perfectly fine with the concept of asymmetrically restricted units lists as long as it's entirely optional. It's the thought of having it forced on me that makes me cringe.

Good point. If things got stale, reduce the tech supply. If feeling adventurous, limit it considerably. This is much like an idea thread posted recently, though unfortunately it was hard to understand.

Well, the ability to have a game mode where you pick what units you want up to a host chosen limit would be interesting, though probably unbalanced. If they can balance it, it would be cool for an occasional game (like building a limited size deck in a card game). Not sure I would enjoy it anywhere near as much fun as being able to build everything I want though.

No factions, no diversity. Put everyone on the same playing field. Some of these ideas are getting ridiculous, over the top, and needlessly complex.

The last three options have forced restrictions. Either through factions or through unit lists. Those add up to 27%. How do you get to 40%?

Again, only the last three options create any restriction, either through factions (23%), lists (10%) or both (10%). No factions is 76%. Commander acts as a faction is not even in the poll, I am not sure what you mean here... everyone is his own faction. Unit availibility, i.e. unit lists accounts to 11% in total.

OPs' idea could work but I don't think PA needs to be a "Deck building game".

Randomly generated maps for example. Different maps require different strategies.
If you have several different starting options with vehicles, robots, air and naval units for example. All types might not be viable on all maps but I bet there will be some maps where you could choose several of them and from there you are stuck with your choice for the first part of the game forcing you to react to asymmetric unit clashes.

Asymmetry happens as soon as 1 player make a different choice than the other player.
If 1 player choose to go to t2 before the other player the t1 player will have to use t1 units against t2 units.

Actually when I think of it I don't know how you could win a game without countering the opponent. It's like OP doesn't want to have to memorize the counters and instead just rely on some local imbalance to so that his strategy can't be countered.
Optimally everything you do should counter the opponents moves. There can be of assymetric situations when you have to do pull out something out of your hat to win even if you all share the same unit list.

Edit: Counters can include but are not limited to:
Ecoing.
Harassing.
Expanding.
Dodging bullets
Micro.
Macro.

Could always add "deck building" as a game option.

Not exact a core feature IMO. Sounds like perfect modder fodder instead...