Completely underwater bases

In TA you could build a base that was completely aquatic (after TA:CC) but a lot of the buildings floated, whiles others were underwater. So I was hoping that this time around it would be possible to build a completely submarine base. What do people think?

Re: Completly underwater bases

A submerged base I can imagine would then only be attackable by submarines which would probably result in spamming of the unit.

I despise sub spam.

Hopefully there would be good ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) units which could attack underwater basses as well as counter sub spam with some efficiency.

It should be possible, but anything that isn't close to the shore to have some on-land support must have some form of vital support that is above the water level. Something like, shielding holding the water back. Really, any form of structure, that when destroyed, would cripple your base.

This means that subs, normal ships and planes could all attack it.

Other than allowing your base to be easily spotted and attacked, is there a rational behind have "vital support that is above the water level" (and what is the rational)? Why would my underwater fusion reactor (or metal extractor) need to have a surface component (the fission reactors in submarines today do not have such a need)?

I suppose if you want this mainly for aesthetic purpose then you could make all naval units able to drop a simple depth charge like weapon to damage a building. Otherwise I don't know.

Maybe certain underwater structures could be more expensive, so an underwater shipyard, would be more expensive than a shipyard. Certain structures could also only be built underwater or on water [underwater metal extractor comes to mind]. Having an underwater factory building amphibious units would be cool too.

When it comes down to it, torpedo bombers would still be able to destroy them.

That would be fine with me. I always found it strange that so few units could effectively target underwater units.

I love to see some underwoter buildings.

i thing the need to make two sets.

1. standart woterbase.

2. underwoter more expensive to make.

or the can mix it upp in a wonderfull way.

I could agree to underwater bases. Building and repairing a submarine fleet under water is a no brainier for robots. They don't have to deal with silly things like air.

Resource collection, energy generation and static defences should float on the surface though. Just so it's vulnerable from surface and underwater attack.

Walls would also be interesting in a water environment. They could double as platforms or bridges for land based units or buildings, as well as prevent submarines from sneaking into a water base.

I dont think you should try to dictate how to play, but you should balance costs and benefits in an interesting way.

So for example give players the option to build all underwater bases if they want, with immunity from normal air to ground attacks, but make underwater buildings either more expensive or more fragile or both, which is logical.

From a development perspective underwater buildings probably dont need to look very different to ground buildings, the big problem is you have introduced another level of play which is above ground but under the water surface and under air and under space. For a standard RTS engine this would be a headache but for PA with uber-zoom I am hoping it will be trivial to make this work.

Then make a set of interesting sub aqua attack / defence units, which includes surface and air delivery using appropriate ordnance for blowing up buildings or targeting units underwater.

eg

• Subaqua, limpet mine placer (can target any units and buildings in contact with water), micro-torpedo minibot (ditto), self propelled micro concussion bombs (area of effect = [AoE]), torpedo sub with (ultra fast high damage but big turning circle and limited travel time) guided cavitating torps and sonar, underwater mine release pod (releases a bunch of floating mines in one go and is consumed), cruise missile sub (must surface to launch max batch of 5 then slow ordnance rebuild), mega-sub has cavitating torps and builds 5 cruise or a single ICBM which with boosh! warhead drops onto target enters water as self propelled mega-concussion boosh! bomb guides itself to the detonation point and makes big booosh! in the ocean under (or above subaquatic) bad guys (alternatively use airburst warhead for surface and air mega damage).
  
  Surface, small fast (medium sized) guided torpedo boats, depth charge dropping destroyers sonar, anti-air cruiser with air & surface radar, minelayer with midwater proximity concussion mines and topography scanner, big battle ship with all detectors and turrets and artillery gun and also slow recharging shockwave AoE ordnance detonation defence (detonates all incoming in a radius).
  
  Air, torpedo bombers, depth charge bombers as well as the usual fighters and scouts etc but I dont think the spyplanes should have sonar, doesnt make sense. Also air to ground weapons like bombs and rockets should potentially hit surface units and structures but not underwater units or structures. Also divebomber unit dives into water at speed to target all surface or subaqua enemy and detonates self.

I don't really mind either way on this to be honest, it's mostly an aesthetic thing. I don't see why bases shouldn't be built underwater.

Shipyards, hover factories, and possibly air factories should float on the water though. Doesn't make sense to build those units underwater. Amphibious factories and a separate sub factory if that exists could be underwater.

Pretty much this. Except for the air factory, TA had a 'pop-up' sea plane factory that made amphibious air units.

But yeah, underwater factories should only build stuff that can work underwater.

Underwater buildings should include pretty much everything that doesn't need to see the sky to work, such as fusion plants, tidal generators, metal extractors, perhaps some undersea Geothermal plants to go with the land versions, torpedo defenses, sonar, sonar jammers, metal and energy storage, sub factories, amphibious tank/vehicle/bot factories, etc.

Basically what we had in TA, but expanded a bit.

Main strength would be stealth, main weakness would be against air power.

Re: Completly underwater bases

QFT

If they can do it in a way that makes something other than subs the primary form of attack... OK. Otherwise? No thanks

Sure, in real life they don't need surface components. But realism isn't what the game is a bout.

I can't imagine it playing very well if the only way to take it out if using submarines, boats and planes should be able to attack it to some limited extent.

It'd be fine for them to be completely underwater if they required some sort of supply run the enemy could cut off.

The two issues are not necessarily related. If there are good ASW options for surface ships and aircraft there would be a limited (or not so limited) way for the base to be attacked.

There are no good options for what needs to be supplied to the base. The only two resources you need are metal/mass and energy. I cannot see them implementing needing to ferry resources from a metal/mass extractor or power plant to your base (even if they did why would you not be able to use a submarine?), or any other resource. Now what could be done is make it so there are no good (or simply no) options for underwater energy (or metal/mass).

Your right, this game is not about realism. It's about awesome, and completely underwater bases are awesome

gameplay > awesome > reality.

Do you have an objection on the grounds of gameplay, if so what?

what about bases, that can be submerged?
So instead of a static either or, an active choice with influence on production and military values.
e.g. submerged: better defence at least against non-sub
floating: required to produce non-sub units

and while we are on the topic of "non static states":
Wouldn't it be nice, if water bases are able to move on the water? If not on their own then perhaps towed by larger ships.