Assassins just got NERFED!

Fair enough, no hate here, just stating my stance on this as I see it and mainly getting irritated with people saying you fixed it as a 'balancing feature' which you've never indicated at any point whatsoever (even in this reply ;3 )
During the stream you guys seemed totally puzzled that people didn't even know it was a bug which made me suspect that you hadn't really considered it as an addition and more just an unfixed glitch :3

One thing I do ask during your playtests though is to keep in mind that you guys know the ins and outs of your game and are probably not only fairly good at it but used to working together. Not all players will be so proficient and even less will have the fortune of being in a team that has any cohesion (even worse if you're against such a team when your own group is a random bumbling horde of folk not sure which way to point their gun ;D )

Speaking of trying it when it comes out. Does that mean the patch is almost ready to be implemented? Maybe even within a week?

i feel for ya man, i honestly would not be able to do what you do... so props for making a good game and dealing with all of the constructive....and not so constructive criticisms that come along with it.

This whole time you've been saying it doesn't give really do much to help you. You can't have it both ways. If it didn't give you an advantage why would you care if they took it away?

So logically you either receive a significant advantage from the cloak and don't want to see it go away...... Or the benefit is so minor that you won't miss it when it's gone.

I really don't know how many different ways i have to word this :/

Some people, such as myself, aren't so caught up in the practicalities of things as they are with the higher level aspects of principals. I don't care about personal gains within a game when it really comes down to it. I'll argue logic over this stuff for fun but it's never 'serious business'. What I DO get tied up with is principals and justifications.

There's a reason that my friends always turn to me in board games for conflicts over the rules, and that's because even when I'm playing myself I'm more interested in the pursuit of what is correct than what might benefit me or people in my favour.

The reason I show so much interest in this whole aspect was that at no point had this change been said to have been made for the sake of balance, which many clamour it is. As a player I had thought it was an intended behaviour and on discovery that it wasn't and they were going to fix it, it seemed odd. Watching the stream where the devs seemed puzzled that people hadn't been aware it was a bug, I caught the general sentiment (whether intended or not) of "yeah, well, we hadn't intended for this glitch to be the actual way the game plays so we're going to fix it. Trust us, it plays better the way we intended, wait until you try it."

This echoes with previous experiences I've had with other designers who have told me to wait and see over their intended vision of something. That is, without realising it themselves, they believed it to be better because it's what they intended, not because it's actually better. An example would be one game which was to have a lean system included. I, early on in development, pointed out that the lean system would see little use, citing examples from other games that used a similar system and explaining in user-experience terms why it wasn't a valid pursuit. They told me to wait and see. The lean went in and they cheered and said it made the game so much better. Fast forward to non-designers using it and not only did the majority of players not even know it existed but of those who did, it was not used by almost any of them at all after some initial experimentation.

This isn't the mistake of someone silly, but rather a simple human error... the idea that your ideal is THE ideal. Even the most open-minded individuals can still sometimes have difficulty immediately identifying that the original end goal in their mind (no design doc required ) isn't necessarily as good as they thought, nor actually better than an alternative that presented itself by happenstance.

I personally do see some issues with cloak during grapple being removed. They won't kill the class and players like myself will circumvent these issues because adaptability is what good players do best, but not everyone is a good player and this essentially makes what isn't always the easiest class to learn/play a little steeper in the learning curve. The ability to cloak while grappling also had some charm to it in the sense of a 'discovery' or 'hidden secret' rather like the moves in side-scrolling beatemups you can use that aren't mentioned on the instruction manual or printed on the cabinet anywhere; purely left in to be chanced upon by the playerbase and passed on by word of mouth.

Like I say, from a logical sense of view though, it's no big deal. I just question it from a principal point of view, meaning no disrespect to the dev team while still believing them to be human and therefore fallible... just like me. I could be wrong too after all and their change may shift it for the better in subtle ways I didn't project. In the end I guess we'll see, but I like to make myself clear in the here and now all the same :3

That's all you had to say. Sense it's no big deal I'm glad you won't miss it.

I sense this is meant to be followed by some kind of argument or response from me but I'm not sure what you wanted and I don't really get the point of your post, so just imagine there's a picture of a bunny with a pancake on their head here instead :3

That's all you had to say, Geminosity. Twenty times, evidently.

Incidentally, I mostly play Support these days. Keeping in the cloak-while-grapple logically puts me at a disadvantage. I'd think player bias would work against my interests. I can't speak for other people, but really, the whole "you wouldn't miss it if it didn't give you an advantage" logic is just...Well, shallow and trite.

I'm surprised nobody has locked this yet due to senseless ranting... but I'm sure they will if this goes on. Everyone is just saying things to get a rise out of others, it's not even about the game anymore. So how about we grow up and use constructive criticism rather than slowly but surely pissing off the admins.

Since you're preaching adult behaviour, couldn't you have written that in a way that didn't read so puerile?

Anyway, half this board meets any question of balance with something akin to "learn your role." Mature discussion is almost antithetical because when an issue like this is brought up, you either:

• Are a noob
• Suck at the game
• Need to learn your class
• Are trying to overpower your favourite class

Etc. I probably missed some. The list of justifications is getting long and annoying.

Should have done this long time ago. Topic locked. Arguing with air is useless.