Assassins just got NERFED!

You are the one who mentioned walking across the map as if it were an arduous task.

If you assassinate someone from a cloak and go into a cloak it gives you extra time to escape because you disappear much faster. It also prevents turrets from shooting at you (and they are supposed to shoot at you while you assassinate someone)!
But if you're cloaking during the animation that large window is now very small. Even when you know where to shoot it is still harder to shoot something invisible rather than something that is visible.

Maybe we are playing different assassins. The assassin I know has 2 getaway skills and a utility skill that doubles as a getaway skill. I disagree about assassins being sub part at killing if you know what you are doing. Did I ever say it was a guaranteed escape? Perhaps that is what I implied, but I was only referring to cloaking during the grapple.

I'd say the fully upgraded support is much better at clearing lanes than an assassin. The 3.3 turret will take out bots and pros very quickly from an astonishing range. The support's antenna will make his bots very hard to destroy as they approach (and give him good cover). If a bot is hurt the support can heal it. The only character better at killing a cluster of bots than the support is the tank. Healing is also the fastest way to get juice as it doesn't require an enemy.

When your grapples miss due to lag it's a completely different issue. There are some people that I can't shoot even if I am in kissing range due to lag. The slam power already has a counter. And even if it didn't..... as an assassin it's your fault if you get hit by a slam; it means you were foolish enough to expose yourself prematurely to the gunner.

Using the cloak during the animation feels like cheating. It feels like cheating just like how putting your gun through the bullet proof glass and firing (as either a tank or sniper) feels like cheating. It makes the game way too easy in the same way that it's much easier to win by shooting the ball instead of walking bots over to it first. It also feels like cheating in the same way that having super speed/unlimited dash is cheating. Is that clear enough for you?

The tank is without a doubt the best lane clearing pro. If you think otherwise then try getting anywhere near round 1000 of the blitz mode with an assassin. The only exception I will grant you is that an assassin using the dash exploit can clear lanes faster than a tank. But I don't think that's what we are talking about so I'll retract that comment.

And now, for something entirely silly.

Well for a start how something 'feels' is down to the individual. A lot of assassin players obviously didn't feel like it was cheating as they thought it was an intended feature until the patch notes and again 'too easy' is not an argument, it's an expression of opinion unless you're the designer of the game of course :3
I will say that the dash thiingy and super bomb jump are obvious glitches however because the way these functions normally behave indicate as much compared to when the glitch kicks in (I got my first unintentional taste of one of these last night when I panicked while smoke jumping. I'm not sure what triggers it but I found myself miles in the sky and found myself thinking "what the hell???" before I remembered about the bug XD ).

And if I'm foolish enough to be hit by slam I can say you were foolish enough not to notice the assassin before they grabbed you
Seriously though. I don't get grappled by assassins very often at all and when I do it's usually lag (e.g. getting grabbed out of the air mid-jump or getting grabbed by one I saw run way past me suddenly teleporting into a front grapple) Lag/laggy hosts are really hurting this game. I can't even jump over jackbot slams reliably sometimes because of it :/ The funniest lag moment so far was attempting a back grapple twice against a completely stationary tank only to somehow teleporting into a front grapple animation on fire despite the tank never firing his jet gun once :s

Actually, I wasn't. Not only didn't the post say that, but I wasn't the poster who made it. I'm just the one who called your comment disingenuous.

So what if it's harder to shoot something that's invisible? Even most of the noobs have figured out you can spray and pray to find the Assassin.

And you can use all three during a grapple...Oh, wait.

Of course, you're talking fully upgraded, which is an issue in and of itself. True, supports have a lot of way to earn cash, but that doesn't translate to fast. Assassin is pretty good at lane clearing from out of the box, and gets better with upgrades. Support can buff his own team's bots, yes, but that doesn't translate to lane pusher.

Pfffft, learn your class. If anything the assassin is way to powerful. When she goes to back stab a support she should really be giving him a reach around that double overheals the support and his ejaculate should insta-kill all the enemy turrets.

Dont feed the troll guys.

Anything that stops people from loading up 3+ assassins in a match gets my support. In the hands of a semi good player they are a pain in the *** (nothing like having 3-4 of your bases turrets wiped out in an instant to a juiced assassin).

You do realise that if you stop there being 3+ assassins then you'll just get 3+ snipers, 3+ supports or whatever instead right?

How do you figure? Neither go invisible or have a butt to stare at (and if your staring at supports butt you got problems!) which is the main reason that people play the assassin despite 80% of them sucking at it (despite their cries that they are 'awesome') and crying for the ability to take down anyone, anytime 1 on 1.

Easy. Because that's the pattern that's happened in almost every single class-based game I've ever played. There's always a 'flavour of the month/year/forever' and if that gets made undesirable then people just move enmasse onto the next one. You almost never get true class diversity unless you put hard limits on the number people that can play any one class, but the minute you start doing that you just start losing players because people can be finicky over not getting what they want :3

Except flavor of the month always has to do with the perceived 'strongest' class. That's not what is happening here. It's all about the invis, look of the class and the booty...that is it. Doesn't matter that they go 2-15 with them...they come right back to it.

Good support players get money rather quickly. Level 2 passive makes the bots stronger and likely to live longer. Everything at level 2 is good enough for what you need to do. Put your back to the wall and heal your turret until you get passive 3.

If we categorized everyone by their favorite class... is Assassin a 51% majority? I think not. With that in mind most people are probably going to be against leaving the cloak cheat in. It's cheese and you're just not willing to admit it. The developers said oh yea that's a problem and we are going to fix it.

If there was a gunner exploit which allowed you to keep your gun spun up all the time without taking a speed penalty I'd say something because it would give you a considerable advantage. You're not willing to admit the cloak trick gives you a considerable advantage. It does and that's why people use it. If it didn't give you an advantage why would you care if they took it away?

Assuming it stops them. That's problematic in and of itself.

You're slanting the playing field with your conditional there. The problem is, use of the word "good" can cut both ways.

Seriously? After all these posts you're going to try and conveniently forget the incredibly explicit reasons I gave explaining all this again? I'm sorry but I don't appreciate having to repeat myself to someone just because they find my perfectly valid reasoning too difficult to argue against so they have to pretend they've forgotten it.

Here, I'll put it in bold for you...

I'm against the change because they never stated it was a problem but rather they were fixing it just because they were going to fix it. It's a matter of design principal. If they'd said they were fixing it because it was unbalancing then I'd have no issue but they've only stated they're fixing it because they the original design says so. They've not even evaluated how this 'glitch' figures into play, whether it's negative or positive.

They've had plenty of time to say otherwise and they haven't which as far as I'm concerned is validation of my proposition.

As for your example, if there was indeed a gunner glitch so that every time you spun the barrels with the left trigger it didn't remove your movement speed I'd probably think it was intended. Strange but intended. I'd also not give a damn if it never got fixed as it's hardly game-ending.

As for cloaking during grapple giving 'considerable advantage'? Be serious. All it does it let you grapple in the lanes without the blackjack brigade slaughtering you. The turret kills can easily be done without it just by waiting for the turret to target bots. and I've already pointed out a few good times that most inner-base grapple kills take place on the upper balcony which none of the base turrets have line of sight to.

Seriously, if I ever have to repeat this again to you then I'll consider it your admission that you have no solid point of opposition in this argument. As it already is, you've immediately lost any respect I had for you as a debating partner by pretending you don't know my answers to such paper-thin accusations already when I've not only covered them with you but several other times with different people.

You've already made it painfully clear that you're not even arguing from a point of principal or logic, and that your campaign for this fix is almost entirely just because you've irrationally let your hate for one or two definite unbalancing bugs cloud your opinion of the assassin class in general.

Just because we haven't replied doesn't mean we're "following the design" Give us a little more credit than that please. Our whole process is trying things out and keep what works for our design and getting rid of things that don't. There wasn't a large design doc ever doing development. Our process is more agile than that and our daily internal playtests, outside testing and feedback is what keeps or kills a feature.

Sometimes it's a purely a creative decision in terms of direction or it's a decision that we take the balance of the whole game into account. There isn't a right or wrong in certain cases but a judgement and perspective call. Not everyone is going to agree or disagree with our game. That's fine. We will listen to your feedback, and we have but in this case, the patch IS NOT OUT YET. So how about saving the hate until you get to actually try it

20 pages is a little much...

yes, there's 16 of us and 1900+ of you.