Why are Assassins so underpowered?

Yeah, you're right, being headshot by the sniper is really annoying. Oh wait, sorry, that's something that actually IS instant and the sniper doesn't have to escape because he's nowhere near you in the first place.
You ever been stickied by a support when you're nowhere near a bridge? That's a lot of fun too and still faster than the assassin grapple animation... infact the last time I got stickied is because my back-grapple got changed into a front grapple and the support stickied me immediately after the animation finished. Fun fun fun! :3

You like teamwork huh? That's odd... if you used teamwork like you claim then any assassin grappling, cloaking during or not, would get shot to death before the grapple finished by your OMFGAWESOME teammates. But you'd know all about that with your endless teamwork right? Those reliable friends by your side have rid you of all assassins during their not-instant-at-all grapples before the killing blow was dealt haven't they? Oh you great teamworker you :3

On a fun note I've played both with and against the cloak trick too and as a support no less. Guess what... it made heck all difference because the assassin's couldn't even grab me in the first place! (grapple invulnerability and criss-cross will make you... JUMP! JUMP! ) I'd be lying if I even noticed the difference as a non-assassin to be honest whether people used the cloak or not. Then again, I haven't got a personal vendetta against the class and a single glitch on it so I wouldn't be looking out for it like a hawk like some people seem to ;D

Oh and if using something when you need it is a crutch then your weapons and abilities are all crutches. All of them! Great scot! I've been using all these crutches all this time!

meanwhile... in the 'which class is most underpowered' thread...

What's this? Is this you posting that your favourite class is weak? Holy UberGunnerSharks Ubergunnerman! To the ubergunner cave, we have a mystery to solve!!!

Pointing out the fact that you addressed only two, or three points out of everything I said? Yes, it makes them weep.

You're the one who isn't putting one and one together. You STILL have yet to realize my point (stupidity), or continue to ignore it (ignorance). This, is about, class counters. What you are saying, again, applies to ALL classes. ALL classes can take down an enemy to great with help, in a team game. And, I've already addressed Shuriken. Wont bother repeating myself AGAIN.

Yes, whereas shooting the ball breaks the game, using the cloak allows you to level the playing field. Also, shooting the ball gets you a very distinct message. Ever heard "Can't shoot with the shields up"?

Alright, that was badly worded on my part. The only class to counter the continuously healing Support that camps at the Firebase with ease, That should clarify pretty much your entire column of text there. I don't understand how you had mistook that statement though, considering it was pretty obvious....

Alright, you disagree there. That's a matter of opinion, and one that I only hope I can change. Though, most of what you say is bull. Instantly kill a player? Riiiiiiiight. And the response of the person being grappled isn't why you're cloaking bud.

And, I admit it. All I do all game is follow players until they're near a turret, and then assassinate them, and cloak. THE SHAME!!!

So, in other words, if they kept the counter for the Support, we should have that counter nullified? Genius my friend, pure genius.

So the one and only poll that matters, which just happens to say that the Assassin is considered underpowered, doesn't count as research? Interesting logic there, my friend.

If you would like to take my outburst as a way out, then by all means, do so. I shouldn't have flipped, but your CONTINUED, repeated displays.... just, god. They may be insults, but they are accurate.

Putting aside the fact that you made it difficult to decipher this wall of poorly phrased text, you seem to be once again ignoring my main point. WHAT a surprise.

You're right though. And isolated Gunner isn't the same thing. They're just a big walking target.

....I'd say more, but I just can't, for the life of me, understand what the hell you're trying to say here.

So, the Support is psychic? Cool, I wish I knew I had my bases turrets on my HUD when I'm a Support. A simple strategy indeed. Now to find an endowed opponent, and distract him with the destruction of his base.

Not really, I kill them with my mortar far more often than they kill me. I run directly at snipers and knock them off their high perches.

Yep it's part of the game. If he sticked you, in that situation the best thing you can do is give him a hug so he dies too. I bet you are plagued by grapple changes about as often as I am. I've had my black flush against the wall many times only to be mysteriously backstabbed by an assassin. Oh yea and the cooldown on the airstrike is about three times as long as your grapple.

If I'm standing by a hacked firebase, it doesn't matter if you grapple me from behind and turn on your cloak mid grapple. The turret won't shoot you; That certainly feels like cheating to me. You should have to at least kill the turret and then grapple me in order to get your free kill. That's exactly the teamwork I described, but your exploit turns a good strategy into a waste of time.

Yes and the noob assassin fighting you didn't know enough to try using lunge. Jumping to avoid grapples was intended.

The difference is that coming out of the cloak you get extra increased damage after the grapple. Also support turrets won't shoot you while you grapple and this makes no sense as you didn't stop to blind the turret. You really can't notice the difference? I think we need a second opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeynwU5YS2o

@UberGunner

I'm not here to flame anyone, but are you sure that you're not just here because you have a grudge against assassins who just happen to be the gunners counter-class?

If you're getting your second opinions from starscream that'd definitely explain some of your posts ;D

I've never relied on turrets to protect me. They're there for the bots as far as I'm concerned. They're surprisingly easy to circumvent on almost any class I've played so the idea of them being 'anti-pro' in any way shape or form didn't even enter my mind nor do I really see why it should. I'm more amused that you expected the firebase to shoot the assassin gutting you than wondering where on earth the engineer who put it up was. What happened to teamwork? Or is your version of teamwork working with static AI emplacements instead of other players?

I didn't say jumping to avoid grapples was a problem. I said it makes me an assassin's nightmare. The lunge collision is glitchy as heck unless you're host as well, I've seen some assassins slide off me without doing any damage which is kinda fun... less so when I'm the assassin doing it though :3
That said, it takes approximately 3 lunges to kill a support and it takes about 1 to 2 shotgun shells to end an assassin. For this reason, I never take on a support at close range unless it's a back-grapple. I tend to pepper them with shurikens instead if they know I'm about or a grapple fails and I survive long enough to get out of shotty range.

I've never had any trouble with gunners as sniper. I guess we'll have to assume you've not fought any decent snipers and I've not sniped a decent gunner then :3

As far as grapples and the old facing switcheroo goes, it's an odd glitch that's annoying for both sides I imagine. There's definitely one where I lunged at a tank who turned to face me and I somehow appeared behind him doing a backgrab. I cackled madly at that one while simultaneously thinking that it must've been frustrating for the poor tank. I know I'd have fumed. That said, it's almost as frequent for it to go the other way around. I really hope Uber find some way to fixing the lag issues that lead to these oddities as they make playing/facing assassins a tad random at times.

I'm also not that fussed about the airstrikes and sticking. I only mentioned it as yet another horrible way to die and the sniper's rate of fire is more than three times faster than my grapple recovery so that makes it over 9 times better than airstrikes

The cloak levels the playing field according to whom? Maybe shooting the moneyball while the shield is up is just a quirky little feature that will be changed and incorporated into regular play.... just like the cloak. Error, Error logic failure!

Nope. It only proves to show how little you know about this game. Everything I said before still applies. Gunners and tanks do more damage, sniper flak forces the support away, etc. You don't know what you're talking about and you don't play with/against people that know how to utilize their class to its fullest. As such you really don't have much to contribute about game discussion.

You're putting words in my mouth. I said all polls except developer polls.

My statement still stands. You ran out of valid points and went straight to a volley of insults. Did you forget that they already reminded you once to be civil? If you were civil and had valid points to discuss I might continue this conversation.

You just don't see how ignorant you are being. Your obvious lack of understanding of basic strategy shows your ineptitude. Furthermore it is a clear sign to me that talking to you is a waste of my time.

Since this last point is so important I'll spell it out for you. Who cares if the support camps at his firebase in the middle of the map if you take out all of his base turrets? If he comes to engage you, then you have won because now he can be assassinated. If he does not then you have destroyed his turrets and you will soon be shooting his ball.

You said I'd be lying if....

I posted a funny link to a movie (as proper internet flaming dictates) that says,: "you're either lying or stupid".

The insinuation since you missed it is that you are lying or stupid. I think it's pretty clear, like Starscream you have decided upon Stupid.

I'm through talking to you as well.

going for insults instead of tackling the oppositions points is generally a sign that you've lost an argument. I thank you for your concession to truth, justice and the assassin way. You will be granted the honour of a swift death when the assassin empire comes to rule unlike the others who shall die in a manner that is slow, painful and possibly involves licorice :3

~salute~

edit: also, if you have to explain a joke then it's really not funny :/

Why does the Support have to camp in the middle of the map? Why can't he camp in his own base instead?

After reading your posts, you seem to be really, REALLY biased against the Assassin.

I'm biased against all the assassin exploits that abound right now: the cloak, the dash, the smoke bomb...... as a friend pointed out, every power is bugged right now.

The first week this game was out it, it was really amazing. There were zero cheaters and there was no lag. From day one the Assassin has struck me as a well designed class. I saw that the majority of players had no idea what they were doing and that there were an elite few who were truly amazing. Seeing those few at work make you realize that the assassin class is well designed.

I like having an assassin on my team (instead of a third gunner /yawn). One of my friends plays it exclusively and is rather talented. I have several friends who do a very good job as well. But hearing all this talk that the assassin is about to be ruined is unfounded.

If you're having trouble playing the assassin without cheating then you either: need more practice, are playing very good opponents (see suggestion one), or you aren't doing something right.

to be honest, the only counters to this thread is, assassins can push lanes better than any class, and use teamwork. the assassin CAN push lanes better than any class, but then what? what happens if your pushing lanes and some big mean gunner or support comes into the equation? you cant do anything besides teamwork, in which case any class can do.

wouldn't it be much more beneficial to you and your team if say you went gunner and pushed lanes ( but slightly worse than the assassin) then if a support starts counter pushing you wouldn't be totally stuffed on your own and have to resort to teamwork AND you would actually be able to help your team if they run into trouble, if you where an assassin you could pick one person off then have to sit tight and do nothing for 15 seconds while your grapple recharges.

if people where actually using teamwork it would mean that the assassin now cannot do anything, because of the lengthy grapple times and her inability of any other method of attack without getting facepalmed by a grenade and gibbed.

(there was a thread that listed the grapple damages and health of the classes. i THINK a gunner with silver armour could survive a back grapple with the dagger, a gunner has 200 health bronze gives 25, silver:50 gold:100 assassins back grapple does 225 damage)

and honestly who wants to sit there and push lanes the entire game when you could be out killing people? gaming is about having fun so whats the point of playing the assassin if your just gonna spam rb+rt to push lanes and be bored. instead of doing what her namesake says. assassinating

Not to point any fingers, but almost every post in this thread has been filled with insults against anyone with a dissenting opinion, on both sides. Does that mean that both sides have lost the argument? =P

The irony...

Oh god, the irony...

Pff- hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

Thanks for the good laugh "UberGunner".

Wait, isn't this what people call a "Hypocrite"?

Either way, its funny.

*sigh* According to the people (so far a majority, I might add) who have voiced their opinions on the patch regarding the Assassin.

I would say the same to you. I've played as Support, and stayed next to my Firebase in times of crisis. A Tank has never once killed my Firebase when I was there healing it. A Gunner has, though this is hardly with ease. And a Sniper's flak grenade, unless level three, has never posed a problem to me or my Firebase when I'm there.

Uh, actually, no, you didn't. Read:

Where does this single out developer's polls as not counting? Is it the one that says the only one that matters is the one the developers hold? Wanna clarify that one for me?

Yes, it still stands. But correct? Unlikely. True, this applies to most people, but apparently not me, as you now hide behind the dev's comment going "If you're not nice, I wont play with you!" Nice job trying to pretend otherwise though.

I never ran out of valid points. They were just cleverly hidden in my wall of all caps. You're now choosing to run off, which I don't blame you for, as you STILL have yet to address the single point I've tried multiple times to get across to you.

I don't see how ignorant I'm being? Interesting. The same applies to you. Gotta love irony. I'm glad you can somehow judge my playstyle through my posts. This must be the ESP you mentioned earlier. I'm glad you realize that talking to your betters is a waste of your time.

While this is a great strategy that I already employ, at what point did you say this? To quote you, again:

You say that I will make him leave by attacking his turrets. Now, I may be wrong here, but unless the Support is MIGHTY close to his base, he wont know that his turrets are being attacked/destroyed. So, with this being so, how in the hell would this draw his attention without him being near already?

If you don't have a grasp on simple concepts such as these, than I suggest you go away, and stop babbling already.

Those elite few who used the cloak exploit, without ever considering the possibility that it was unintended. There have been other posters who have said as much, and stated that they used it, never going "HAHAHA, I IZ UBER LEET HAXORZ!". No one knew, yourself included, I'm willing to bet anything, that it was an exploit until it was announced.`



Lastly.

.....

Maybe......

I'm just a sarcastic *** when I talk, so that's normal for me

This is a light class which has a very powerful grapple, the shuriken is great for taking out bots from a distance and chipping away enemy health. I don't think the Assassin needs a buff at all.

We're arguing on the internet. We all lost by default before we even started :3

Since cloak will not be activateable (yeah I just made that word up) during grapples, they should make the shurikens damage turrets twice as much.

My only real problem with the cloak while grappling being removed is how long the grapple takes. Without the cloak during the grapple, 90% of the time you will be killed during the grapple by Bots/Turrets/Firebases and you won't even get the kill since you will have been killed before you got to finish the grapple. It makes grappling pointless for the most part unless you find yourself in the very rare situation where you find an enemy pro without a turret, firebase, or bots nearby. My suggestion is to make the grapple animation faster so the assassin at least has a chance to survive the grapple.

I do put an emphasis on bot/turret destroying, but what am I supposed to do when the enemy bots are being escorted by an enemy pro? If I try take take out the pro, I just get killed by the bots during the grapple. If I just try to take out the bots, the enemy pro will kill me. Without the recloak during grapple, there is pretty much nothing I can do in that situation. You say to use teamwork and ask for help, but most randoms don't use mics and don't bother to help their teammates so I'm forced to work alone. Sadly, not many of friends play this game so I'm always forced to play with randoms.

My other complaint about the assassin is that its biggest strength/weapon, the grapple, isn't even the best one in the game. The sniper grapple and assault charge+grapple are both better than the assassin's. People rationalize this by saying that the sniper and assault's grapples are skills and take up a skill slot. IMO, that isn't really a good justification for it because pretty much ALL of the assassin's skills are one way or another dedicated to the grapple. Cloak is used primarily to get in position behind your grapple target. Dash is also used to get in position to grapple and to escape after a grapple. Smoke bomb primary function is to use the smoke jump to escape after a grapple. So why shouldn't the assassin's grapple which takes up pretty much every one of the assassin's skill slots be the most powerful grapple in the game?

A very good question. Why should assassins have to deal with having a weak grapple that doesn't one hit kill ANY character from the front with an armor endorsement? It should get stronger as you upgrade passive IMO.

Truth!