Gapshots/Longshots don't work on Steel Peel?

I just discovered, The shells that Gapshots and Longshots don't actually work on this arena, they just hit the ceiling of the map before they can land. Needs fix, my suggestion? make the roof of this arena "ghosty" allowing bullets to travel through it,

Finally another catches on We really need someway to spread this around ;D
I think the option should just not be there. It's a breath of fresh air to not have your base spammed by artilley shells from waaaay over at the enemy base.

I think its exposed to be like this. The walls are clearly tall for a reason. The gapshots can hit targets but not until they get out of your base.

I have one issue with this, my teammates don't know and they don't work and keep building longshots.

All the maps provide different strategies based on their layout.

Maybe trying to use gap/long shots in Steel Peel isn't the best strategy.

Steel Peel was designed to minimize if not completely get rid of artillery use. Longshots are basically useless but gapshots are not tethered to one point so they are not completely useless.

i lol'ed

Curious but where does the game teach this to the players? A learning curve is one thing but this is simply an oversight as even the Support's Air Strikes will impact within the dome area of Steel Peel arena.

EDIT: A better solution would simply be to not allow players to build Long Shot turrets on certain nodes or to change the AI to shoot only at a flat trajectory on this map.

The game is so deep you have to pick what you choose to teach the player and what you choose to let the player learn on his own. There's a fine line of design that one walks between hand-holding and letting the player experiment and discover for themselves. This was something I chose to let the player discover for themselves. I, personally, don't like the idea of trying to teach the player all the exact best strategies for every situation.

Steel Peel was a tricky decision. I wanted a map that forces a different turret strategy.

Turning off artillery turrets/bots causes for more code (more time/resources) and removes the times they are useful. (They can be useful for low arc and side-path defense) Making them fire only low arc changes the behavior of the turrets solely for this map which, in turn, violates a bunch of other design paradigms. We'd be having the discussion of why they only fire low arc on this map and why that makes no sense since it fires high arc on all the others.

What's interesting is that you created the paradigm with the Air Strike for this map regardless. How does it bypass the dome when the Gunner's mortar, Long Shot and Gap Shot are all unable to do the same? You can't have it one way for the Support and another for the rest.

EDIT: I do understand how you wanted to create a unique strategy on this map but I think the community agrees that you fell short as Steel Peel is the least favorite map.

I'm down with Gap Shots and Long Shots not working on Steel Peel, it adds a different dimension to the level.

HOWEVER, I think that in that case it would be helpful if either:

a) A team could re-purpose turrets on that map, as often people who are not aware of this limitation often build long shots and effectively "lock" a turret node so that nothing useful can be built on it.

b) There was no option to build Log Shots on Steel Peel (see above).

It's weird that Gap Shots and Long Shots don't work on Steel Peel since the roof is actually not solid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuuo5iJ0RdA).


I'd also like to see some glass added to keep snipers from killing all our turrets from all the way in their own base...

The there is a giant hole in the top to give the impressing the top is open for airstrikes, artillery hits the side wall. That's how it is, I'm not saying it's perfect.

I also wouldn't say that thread is anywhere near scientifically accurate.

So if the system is inherently flawed (i.e. Scathis: "I'm not saying it's perfect") why stick to your decision to allow Long shot turrets on Steel Peel? Again, if the logic that made you decide this is not accurate then perhaps the decision is incorrect by default.

EDIT: As the glitch video showed the actual dome is not solid so I see no reason why mortar shells should not work. If there is some double standard in effect that allow Air Strikes to work but not mortars then perhaps not allowing Long Shot turrets on Steel Peel Arena would be the ideal fix. I will admit that there are other maps where Long Shots are just as ineffective but Steel Peel is the worst offender by far.

EDIT2: Make a thread asking which is the Least Favorite Map then. I would love to see how inaccurate the opposite results from the favorite map poll would become.

Because not allowing long shots would result in a host of other issues. We'd be sitting here talking about 'Why you can't build long shots on Steel Peel'.

It's simple, long shots don't fire high enough. You can see that for yourself when you build one.

You seem like a pretty smart guy.... that poll is just anecdotal evidence and gives a great way to focus the conversation of map design.

The problem with steel peel isn't that longshots are useless, it's that ALL turrets end up being a waste of money if the other team has a competent sniper. When a sniper can sit in his base and destroy all your turrets, why even waste your money on them to begin with?

I've seen steel peel matches go two ways:

1) one of the teams has a good sniper (or multiple good snipers) and the other team's turrets are constantly destroyed. This could have the effect of taking one player (the sniper) out of the mix and giving the other team a commensurate advantage, but in practice that sniper can also ding opposing players just about anywhere on the map without leaving the comfort of his base.

2) Alternately, both teams have a good sniper (or multiple good snipers) and the snipers just sit there in the base sniping each other while completely ignoring the actual goal of the game (pushing bots and destroying the opposing money ball.)

Also, the poll thread is anecdotal and a very small sample size, but I'm interested if the guys at uber are able to view game stats like which maps get vetoed. Because the only map I've seen get vetoed is steel peel, and I've seen it happen multiple times.

This experience of mine is also anecdotal, but if Uber have access to these stats they'll be able to see for themselves whether or not people are actually vetoing it at a significantly higher rate than the other maps (and if so do what they will with that information re: future map designs.)

if the dome was solid then that would take away from the Supports ability to kill people on the upper layers of the map. i find that the Longshot turrets not being useful is fine. As for the Gapshots, if they get out of your base they do have a high enough arc (it seems) to go over the walls. But it takes time and is no where near as effective.

What i don't like is when my teammate builds a longshot (or more) so i cant put something useful there. I also don't care for Tanks/Assassins/Snipers being able to sit just outside their base and shoot my turrets. If i am Support i get sniped 80% of the time when hacking my turrets and spend 90% of my time healing the turrets. I have started to regret playing the support on this map and ever building a turret on this map when not a Support.

Anytime this map comes up i hit veto.

This is my least favourite map too, but tht doesn't mean the map is bad. It's a nice change every now and then. No artillery spam and a smaller map. Some more variety! When there's variety, there's always going to be a least favourite but that isn't a bad thing!!
One of the very main ways to improve the map is to SOMEHOW stop snipers from annihilating turrets.

The irony is that we are talking about why Long Shot turrets shouldn't be allowed on Steel Peel. In the end I think that MNC is a fantastic game despite its flaws but it still does have numerous flaws. Failing to correct an issue due to a strategic decision does not make the decision correct however.

I appreciate your opinion, however, I, personally, would not classify our flaws as 'numerous' and nor would I consider the decision I made to keep long shot turrets on Steel Peel an incorrect decision. It was a design call that I made and it can't be correct or incorrect because it is not a black and white issue.

I appreciate the feedback and will take it into account in future map designs.

Hey guys, can we keep it civil with the criticism of the Devs? Seriously, it's not like they just knocked this level together in 4 hours on a Friday and called it a weekend. Don't be arrogant and insinuate they did a bad job. The game is awesome, and the level designs, for the most part, are good.


That being said, I'd still like to see a way to break down Long Shot turrets on Steel Peel so that I don't have to race newbies, who have just discovered the Long Shot money mill, to the turret nubs just to keep them from spawning useless turrets that we won't be able to ever replace.

As well, I think a lot of people would like to see a piece of plexi glass placed somewhere between the two bases on either side so that Snipers cannot decimate turrets from the back of their own base...

Can we indicate that they did a bad job on this map, which appears to be the major thing people are saying, rather than a flat out "The devs suck" or "This game sucks?"

The level designs are, for the most part, good. I totally agree there. If we're being honest, I'm not even all that bothered by this arena in that sense. I mean, This is probably my least favourite to play, but more because of the setup with the openings overlooking your base (and theirs), and the centerpiece than longshots.

My first reaction to the strategy thing was "That's pretty ham handed," but I do see where they're coming from. I mean, it's a giant flippin' dome. And without being told, I sorta opted not to use longshots. I'll use gapshots if they're all I can use, but even then, I usually have better things to spend my money on.

But I can see where people are coming from on this, especially since a lot of people don't figure it out. The game's rather short on instruction, and there's a lot to absorb.