The following is a suggestion I have made in a separate, older thread in passing, but I have come to liking the idea more and more, especially since the change to 4k Moneyball health. What needs to be said before any form of discussion occurs or this proposal is read is that a change to Moneyball defense must occur. It doesn't have to be my version, it doesn't have to have 100% consent, but something needs to be done to better the way a Moneyball is defended. Currently, the Moneyball has two major layers of shielding, each requiring a bot of any kind to rupture (see below), before the moneyball goes down. If the Moneyball is attacked by a jackbot, a third minor layer comes into play. So the ways to down the moneyball are as follows. Three Jackbot Shots. Two bots (scrambler, gremlin, slimbot, blackjack, bouncer, buzzer*, gapshot**) One Jackbot shot proceeded by one bot. One bot proceeded by two Jackbot shots. These all seem acceptable ways of downing a Moneyball, and each requires the opponent to either be dominated or ignorant to succeed. The only issue I have with this stage is that the Moneyball doesn't always seem to regenerate from its minor ruptures. The main problem lies with what happens after the Moneyball goes down. It doesn't go back up. Any assassin with half a brain can continually suicide rush the Moneyball, pepper it with fire, and come back before 30 seconds is up. To an extent, all classes are capable of this. The action is preventable, but the chance of doing so is is microscopic outside of the most extreme defenses (and even then, exceptionally low). With the Moneyball having a 30 second timer which resets upon any amount of damage from any enemy, defense is a very hard task to complete. Defense is near nonexistent at 4k ball health. There have been several times where I've won a match not by defending my downed Moneyball, but by escorting bots into their ball and winning the Moneyball damage race by a landslide as an Assassin. What I propose is an alteration to how the Moneyball decides whether it raises its shields back up. This change will increase the amount of tactical decision that goes into assaulting the enemy base, continue the importance of Robots during the Moneyball-downed period, and most importantly increase the effectiveness of the defender's repulsions. The Proposal I put this in front with the hope to avoid unnecessary conflict. Each mathematical factor in this proposal is debatable. It isn't so much about my exact vision as it is the formula. When the Moneyball is downed, a timer of 30 seconds begins. A bar appears on each player's HUD in the top left underneath Moneyball health.*** This bar, painted red or blue depending on which ball is down, displays what percentage the Moneyball is from regenerating its shields. Damage from bots and players is not affected by what percent this bar is at, and the bar is not accelerated in any way. When a player damages the ball, he/she slows, halts, or beats back the bar depending on how much damage is being done. I recommend the full on fire by one character to be around the amount needed to halt the bar (meaning more than one player on the ball will begin to beat it back). Bots continue to jump into the ball during overtime, and depending on what bot they are, they beat back the bar X % and deal damage. When the bar reaches 100%, the shields are raised, and the moneyball has 0 ruptures on it. What this means Offense ceases to be a bulwark, bullheaded action. With the advent of a stronger, multi-layered moneyball regeneration system (which is still easy to grasp), attackers will have much more to think about when they storm brazenly into the enemy base. This is Monday Night Combat, and thinking is good. When in the face of strong competition, the besieging party will have to plan actions more carefully, care more about the impact of their lives/activity on the field, and take better care of their mechanical compatriots. Incursion wedges in lanes must be widened, bot flow given better preservation, and the severity of a walk back from base is appropriately increased. Robots are an incredibly important asset during the normal stage of gameplay, and should continue to be during the Moneyball-downed period. It seems almost cruel to the bots that they're thrown out of the limelight so swiftly when everything up to the point of downing was about them. This game is designed to not be a mindless Call of Duty-esque shooter, and we need to instill that into every aspect of play. In the Assault's own words: "Remember, you're not just Robots, you're part of the Team!" With the moneyball not being instantly reset to 30 seconds by incoming damage, this system will make players more inclined to defend their base and not simply give up hope on the match. The current iteration of moneyball downing is far too punishing, and with the change to 4k health, game ending. This new version of Moneyball defense makes each and every kill - bot or pro - mean something very important. It gives the defender a greater sense of his actions, and a greater confidence to achieve his goals. The terrible, vorpal sound of a descending moneyball should not server as only a morale breaker. It should also be an eye-widener - a swift, cold slap across the face to the defending team. It can still weaken their resolve, but it should wake them up, make them more aware of what is going on in the field, and take action! Everything isn't lost, get back in that base, kick the bastards out, and GET BACK TO IT! In a closing statement, I'd like to say that I don't intend on insulting anyone's intelligence or be a rabble rouser. For all the dreadful word flinging I do in the heat of a match, this game is near and dear to me. I find that what this game is, what the most important factor is, is that its a step up. Games like Monday Night Combat put the brain back onto the keys and controllers of shooters. It gives them a good name, it makes them something better than the mire of reaction time clicks and deathmatches that plague the gaming community like a cancer. This game and those that created it have done a fine job, and give something to the community that it desperately needs. Monday Night Combat sets a standard for entertainment, for developers, and for the players themselves. When a game like this comes out on the blue moon and outshines the rest like a dam diamond in the rough, you'd best accept what's been given to you, but do what you can to make it gleam all the more. *If I recall correctly, a buzzer blowing up in proximity of the moneyball can cause a shield rupture, or it might be that they attack the moneyball if no other targets are available. ** I don't believe that gap shot artillery rounds can rupture a ball, but given enough time to waddle over to it, I think they jump on the ball, waggle their legs unceremoniously, then die. These occurrences are so incredibly rare, I can't remember exactly what happens. *** The bar is debatable. Should everyone see it, or just the defending team? Should no one see it? I use the term rupture to mean the injuring of the shields by 1/2 or 1/3 from Robots, and downing/downed for when it is vulnerable.
I like the idea with the MB shield bar. I main Assassin and it's ridiculous how easy it is to keep the shields down all by myself for the rest of the match.
interesting proposal, however, i believe the amount that the shield regen is pushed back by depends on the class. for example, classes that find it hard to get to the monneyball such as support and gunner should set back the shields more than assault or assassin, who both can majorly damage the monneyball and get to it with relative ease.
Great idea! I'd prefer to not have too suicide rush for my team. This gives slightly more incentive too stay alive for the assassin, which the class really needs i feel. I'd also like to see the OT rules changed up... Once again great idea
Good idea! I'd propose that the countdown be displayed as a thin vertical yellow line overlaid on top of the moneyball health meters that already appear in the bottom left of the screen. This vertical yellow bar would slide from right to left denoting how long it will be until the moneyball's shields will be restored. This gives everybody the visual cue that they need to understand what's going on, and does so with a negligible footprint.
too many assassins in here so I guess I will have to add one more I agree that there are many ways to fix the Moneyball. I also agree that something needs to be done, especially when it comes to OT. This would be fine, but I believe turrets need to cover the whole ring above the moneyball. I find it a bit ludicrous that you can find spots on the ring where you can't be hit by a turret.
From what I can tell, assassin has the most control of all the classes, which is why I like her the most. Control of bot flow, control of life preservation, control of who gets to juice, and map control. Some of these more so than others and varying based on player competence. I'd love to hear some cons to my idea, debate, or personal ideas on the subject of moneyball shield regeneration. It always helps to keep a thread lively and show that a suggestion matches the community's ideals.
Well, other than the extra turret nub, I would like to see those upgraded Blitz bots gets some action. Don't drop shields, don't have sudden death either. Don't change moneyball mechanics at all in overtime. Instead of the game being an insane juice rush at overtime, just slowly start spawning upgraded bots (the ones with different colours). Have the bot spawn timer (the one you buy for 100$) on 1/3 or 1/4 the time so you can use money to push harder, and every minute (or maybe 2, dunno), upgrade the bots another level (like in Blitz where they change colours). This way, your bots will eventually be able to tank the turrets pretty hard and you will actually PUSH to win, instead of backdooring. The shield idea is pretty good though, I think. A little poke shouldn't hold shields back as much as a full on onslaught. however, I believe one person should be able to beat the shields back, even without juice on. Due to the small spawn times, I think 15s should be the time it takes to get the shields up, but if even 1 person is consistently hitting the ball, the regeneration progress should be undone. This way, when you finally push the foes out of your base and refortify, you moneyball refortifies in about the same time, BEFORE the opponent can respawn and be back.
I think it's fine the way it is on the Xbox version, Although, I like the 00:30 timer. Just keep it the same way.
I was thinking of making MNC more like Soccer. Old Moneyball Concept- After two attacks from bots, the shields go down and reset in 30 seconds, if and only if it isn't damaged with the shields down. New Moneyball Conept- The moneyball has 3 stages of health. Every time the moneyball's shields go down, the attacking team has a chance to lower the moneyball's health by 1/3th. Once the health is damaged 1/3th, the shields go back up. This lowering of 1/3th would be equivalent to making a goal in Soccer. When this 1/3th is damaged, all bots are destroyed and all pros are relocated to their respawn. This lowering of 1/3th of health is like making a goal in soccer, when the team makes the goal, the game is reset. The team that made the goal is now "winning". In the case that the moneyball's health reaches 0, it's like a mercy for the other team for they were unable to keep the moneyball alive for the round. What do you guys think about this?
That would mean almost every game would end without a moneyball being destroyed because getting two bots on the ball with competent people playing is already somewhat difficult.
@ Noyes: The idea is interesting, but I'm not sure how much I like everyone being reset at the end. I don't see a game going all the way to 0:00 sans overtime as an issue, though.
i thought the main reason for your deaths were the constant rage quitting from you anytime you think your team is going to lose
I'm not going to say i don't ragequit because I'm sure everybody does it. But more often then not when i leave the game its because I've been kicked for idling becuase I go to deal with something in real life. I don't like to leave the server if there is a chance I can comeback within idling time because it takes a while to get into a full server, especially if you can't Auto Q off a friend. Probably the reason it seems i quit because my team is losing is because by the time it has taken for the server to kick me, my team has been playing 5 v 6 the entire time. Also I prefer to play this game with someone who is on my friends list. So if i get a notification in the bottom right corner saying someone has joined a game. I'll usually follow. I don't care if I'm on the opposite team of the friend. Just playing with someone I somewhat know is a preference i have. I'm sorry I've earned these negative feelings and the title of "ragequitter" to some. I'll try to keep you guys more in mind next time i make a server switch or go idle. Once again I'm not saying i don't ever ragequit, but who doesn't have an occasional RQ. P.S. i think you may have gotten the impression I am a huge ragequitter when i used to type in all caps. That was back when my taunt button was caps lock.
