OT, juice and moneyball health

yeah, it's silly that the minigun does almost no damage to it while things like the GL and shurikens do a ton

Actually I think a spun-up Dual minigun does more DPS than shurikens, problems are you have to get there first and have to be just about point blank to the moneyball for full damage

I still find it f**ked up that shurikens do not lose any power regardless of distance or number of ricochets yet bullets* which are lighter and more aerodynamic become the equivalent of a nerf dart at about 1.5-2x the stop range of the shotgun

*Not counting the magic bullets Sniper gets in his rifle/smg

I actually like that idea, you would have to increase the amount of time on the juice though. Because you would be removing the reactionary ability of juice and putting it in more of a planned role.

It would probably also provide a bit of a nerf to the players that just keep juice on them to keep thier streak going.

this is true.

The gunner ans tank are by far the toughest characters to get to the MB, especially if a couple of lvl3's are around AND hacked. Yet combined, they do less damage than one assault or sin.

I believe the Railgun is a lot worse than the Jetgun in MB damage

I like this idea :!:

I think the basic idea behind the damage each weapon does to the moneyball was that the slow heavies are great at defense and the medium and light classes can get to the juice machine and moneyball quickly. Even if you are locked into your base and there is a firebase and a Tank patrolling the juice machines a sneaky Assassin can get to them most of the time. Imo that makes sense, it gives you a fighting chance.

The problem is that an Assassin or Assault will buy juice or sit on their juice at the end of the match and can finish the moneyball off in under ten seconds. That's the frustrating part, you can't defend against a good Assassin with juice. There is always a spot you can rape the MB from. To defend against a good Assault is possible but very hard.

Imo the moneyball should have enough health to survive one complete juice run and then a little extra. If you can get two players to the MB, at least one of them with juice, it wouldn't feel like a 'cheap win'.

There were some other suggestions I liked as well but they would require more changes. Raising MB health a little bit is the easiest option that doesn't require a lot of playtesting before it can be implemented.


On a different matter:
Most PC players like to play team death match. I played a match with a very good Assault on my team. The MB went down and I kept it down as Sin for several minutes, despite the heavy defense the other team mounted. Guess what happened. I was the only one doing damage to the MB. That Assault could have won the match for us at any time...

This might be worth considering if MNC is rebalanced. No matter what, PC players will just keep playing TDM, especially Assaults. :lol:

So if I read this right you guys think removing the heal part from juice is a good idea? Now with the already nerfed juice it takes more effort to breach enemy defenses and you want to make it harder thus having even more games go to OT?

You can barely defend against a good assassin unless your team is top notch(with most pubs, they aren't)
[rantmode]People keep saying "Class X or Class Y is the hard counter to Sin". Problem is you have to either get close(not gonna happen with good sins) or get them to hold still long enough(still not gonna happen with good sins)
Hell, if anything Sins either shouldn't be allowed to hit Ejectors/Annihilator while cloaked or at least lose a good chunk(if not all) of their cloak when hitting the button[/rantmode]

Maybe Uber should just make a TDM gametype. If they did maybe people wouldn't TDM so much in Crossfire

I don't agree with that

Get the juice damage and armor back as it used to be and remove the health clutch you get by it. Just my opinion though.

Or player would finally stop sitting on juice for half the match and use it to penetrate the defenses and kill some turrets.

TMD, Sumo. All matches on Grenade III should be Sumo.

i've never understood the whole sumo thing

"let's take all the attacks that are most affected by lag, and use only those!"

Remember patch 7? Those days were pretty cool.

This isn't Xbox, you can actually compensate for the lag reliably! (and sumo is about fun, that thing the community seems to be allergic to )

Really, the one thing that needs to be changed IMO is turrets not being able to hit players standing on the second level ring above the moneyball. I think Uber should make as many turret nubs as necessary depending on the map (start them as nubs, not as level 2s) around the moneyball so that if they are all level 2 rocket turrets, there is no safe place on that ring to shoot the moneyball from. EDIT: To clarify, keep the original 2 rocket turrets, but add nubs, not more level 2 rocket turrets at the beginning of the game. I understand the hidden points where assaults and assassins hail GL and shuriken from out of turret range, but 3.3 turrets can usually deal with that. However, I have NO idea why Uber decided it was a good idea to have spots right above the moneyball where a turret can't get you.

I'm with you on both of these points Killien.
I do however worry that with an additional game mode introduced, it will divide the already small community that exists for this game.

This. We really need a gamemode where you basically can just bullsh!t around. Even better, don't track the stats of that gamemode. Just announce who did best in the last round.

Sudden death is a plausible idea for OT, and like any idea would require debate, tweaking, etc. If you rush, you get their ball lower, but risk death. If you defend, you secure your ball, but don't deal damage. Sudden death sounds like a good idea because if gives you a counter to the sin/assault juice rush, but it also gives them little reason to attempt such a thing. With sudden death in play, players become primary targets.

There are players that do not like this idea, as it warps the objectives of the game from what they were during normal play. I can agree with this, since OT becoming Call of Duty reaction time derpfest is not desireable, but an alteration must be done. Monday Night Combat, like any game, has hundreds of factors that could be tweaked. Some things that I believe could be looked at are as follows.

Respawn timer during OT
Baconing everyone during OT
Buying juice during OT *
Turret prices, construction time, and effectiveness during OT
Damage to the Moneyball (any by that extent, Moneyball health) at all times
Moneyball up/down setting during OT.
Moneyball Shield Regeneration
Bot effectiveness

Some of these factors are more major/minor than others, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. Not everyone can agree on what change should be made, but a change must be made from the current form.


*Buying juice can be seen as a tactical decision. In normal play, it is a 500 dollar investment that must reap 500 dollars in destruction or a Moneyball downing in order to be profitable. In Overtime (and seconds prior), it is an incredibly important asset to control so that your moneyball doesn't die in seconds. I can understand not buying juice in OT, but I cannot advocate the prohibition of juice in OT entirely. Juice takes time to build, requires you to stay safe, and is a preventable action. Every player on the field is a ticking juice bomb - it is your fault if they succeed in reaching maximum, and it is a tactical decision in deciding how to cull the enemy to prevent such action.

I still think it should be more like OT in UT2004's Onslaught gametype(would require boosting MB health back up to 10k tho)

My twist:
BlackJacks start spawning in a steady stream
BlackJacks deal more damage but have same health
Both MBs start losing health, but do not drop(unless already down)
The team that gets pushed back the most loses health on their MB faster