Remove juice

Love the game, but it pisses me off every time some talentless idiot effortlessly destroys all my turrets with a single powerup.

Would really like a mode where people could play without this.

Yay, post.

Without juice, the game will just consist of mass 3.3 turrets with nobody ever winning until overtime.

Learn to juice control and play offense instead of defense.

I have better idea. Remove game and leave juice.

Anyway It would be impossible like Undercover_Thudercat said.
Turret Rocket 3.3 is near impossible to destroy without juice/medic as a Gunner

There are plenty of ways to destroy a turret without getting in range of it. The fact that you chose to say gunner is laughable, since they have one of the stronger ranged attacks (mortar).

- follow your bots in, hit it while it is hitting your bots
- wait until it is trained on one of your other team mates
- use any character with a ranged attack or bomb attack
- focus fire using more than one person

The cost to get a turret to 3.3 is prohibitively high, while the cost to get juice is exceptionally low. Juice removes the need for any level of skill when assaulting the base.

While we're on the topic of cost, we should probably also look at the effectiveness of a gapshot as opposed to a level 3 longshot turret. It costs around $525 to build the longshot turret and it doesn't move, and has less range. contrast to a gapshot which reaches across the map and only costs $100. This game has a lot of balance issues, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

gapshots are not comparable to longshots.

they have entirely different targeting priorities.

iirc:
- Gapshots
Turrets
People
Bots

- Longshots
Bots
Turrets
People

I think you may be missing my point. A cheap gapshot will almost automatically take out the expensive longshot turret. This is fair how? It's not really even worth building longshot turrets as a result because they die far too quickly.

Get on your mic - 'hey assassin my turrents are getting twated - sort out the gapshots'. Problem solved and a waste of $100 of the enemies money.

By the time your assassins get there they've already wiped out a healthy number of turrets. The costs associated with various things are way off.

YOU are missing MY point.

saying a gapshot outperforms a longshot is like saying a bouncer is better than a shaveice turret.

Do you even play this game? They're both units that do long range mortar attacks. It has a longer range, and a similar attack. They are directly comparable. You really can't say that they aren't. The only functional differences is that one moves and can train on targets from further away.

my previous post was purely speculation and i have never actually played this game before.

i want it, but my xbox is broken and i cant download arcade titles.

Here's a suggestion. Get MNC for the PC if you want weaker juiced players.

I knew it! :lol:

I love when Assassins try to juice my turrets. Free Airstike kills.

"By the time your assassins get there they've already wiped out a healthy number of turrets. The costs associated with various things are way off."

Look dude, it seems like you're somewhat new and I totally know why certain things seem imba when you're new...but you are talking to veteran players of this game who have had it since it came out. Once you figure out and get good at countering juice, you'll understand why it is available for $500.

Once you figure out how a good support will never lose a 2.3 turret + without juice, you'll understand why juice is available for $500.

Once you figure out that the assassin can cover any map distance in less than 5 seconds, you'll realize that gapshots are not as great as you thought.

Trust us...the game is balanced fine. This isn't me being a **** so much as just blatantly honest - all of the things you have complained about are perfectly counterable; they just take the right amount of skill and the right actions.

Look up some guides on how to counter juice on this forum. Wazupwiup's guide covers all the basics.

Spending $100 to counter a $525 item (which takes longer to build) near instantly is trash. It is unlikely you'll convince me this is balanced - but if you'd like to try, actually make an argument instead of just telling me it's fine. I don't care how long you've been playing, it doesn't mean you're automatically right.

If your ranged can't take out a turret with a support there, they're doing it wrong. Playing a gunner I have no issues taking turrets out. Playing a support with airstrike 3 is even easier. Even with an enemy support in the area.

Gapshots start acquiring targets right out of the gate. Consider the time it takes to realize what it's doing, and then the travel time for your assassin. If the turret is in an exposed area it dies faster than that 5 seconds....for almost no money. I'm not sure how you can equate this unit with being "bad".

The whole problem is juice takes no skill at all and players who know this don't bother with the enemy base until they have a full juice bar making turrets near worthless unless they happen to be 3.3. You may as well just put an "IWIN" button on the controller and have it light up when juice is available.

I don't see how this connects to the Juice argument, but since I main Support I figured I should weigh in here.

The Gap Shot bot fires once every two seconds. Each shot deals 1000 damage to turrets, assuming a direct hit. Even a level one LazerBlazer has 1500, so that's four seconds to kill the weakest turret in the game. A level one RockIt has 5000, so that's ten seconds, assuming that the turret isn't under cover (and the two on the spawn ring always are). A level two RockIt - and you will almost never see level ones in a competitive game - has 8000.

A Support running Gold Rate of Fire (and most do) can heal turrets for 484 health per second. The Gap Shot does 1000 damage every two seconds, so 500 health per second. Which basically means that a turret under fire from a Gap Shot and being healed by a Support will die some time around the point where the universe undergoes heat death.

Even supposing that for some reason the team Support is not paying attention at all (and it's kind of hard not to notice a Gap Shot firing on your turrets, because you can hear them from across the map and their shells are very easily spotted), Gap Shots have so little health that they will die practically as soon as they spawn. Unless your team has the enemy completely locked down in their own base - in which case the game is almost over anyway - the average Gap Shot has a life span of around ten seconds, whether its death is due to bots or Pros. That means five shots - not enough to take down anything more than a level one RockIt.

On AmmoMule, GrenAde III, Steel Peel, and Spunky Cola, the enemy bot gates are visible unless you are literally unable to leave your spawn ring. The Sniper, the Tank, and the Assassin, therefore, can all take out a Gap Shot as soon as it spawns with ease. On LazeRazor, the gates aren't visible until you're almost in your enemy's base, but the former point about them not living long under the best of conditions still applies, since they'll eventually leave the cover of the enemy base.

If the enemy is paying attention at all, Gap Shots are no threat to their turrets unless they are spawned en masse, in which case the Support has invested somewhere around $400-$500 in order to take down a turret. Seems about right to me.

In the former, you would if your enemy team is actually paying attention and therefore Juice-controlling. The Support buys the rest of the team time via healing and Air Strikes (which can force you away even if you're Juiced, unless you want to die) so that they can ring you out or chain-grapple you.

In the latter, you're either lying or you haven't been paying attention, because the Air Strike does 2500 damage. Even three Air Strikes can't take out a level two RockIt or ShaveIce.

...None, since your character shouts "Gap Shots!" and you hear giant "FOOM"s every time it fires...

...Less than five seconds, as has been previously established, and not even that long on most maps since you can see the gates from pretty much anywhere and each bot pusher has at least one ranged weapon...

...No it doesn't, unless it's a LazerBlazer (which you shouldn't have built in the first place) or a LongShot (which are dirt cheap).

No one ever said they were bad. They just aren't overpowered.

...Except that when you die you lose it, and that you have to have some skill in order to Juice-chain. Not much, but still, and skilled players can Juice-control you anyway.

Except no. Against anything Juiced, short of a Tank (which is the slowest-Juicing class in the game and is meant to do this unless Juice-controlled) or Gunner (which attacks from a distance with Mortars), a 2.2 RockIt turret is still a substantial threat, particularly if the enemy team is paying attention and attempting Juice control. Getting grappled while in firing range of a 2.2 RockIt hurts.

Basically all of your arguments hinge on the fact that absolutely no one on the enemy team has any real experience with the game or is paying attention in the slightest.

This game is not a tower defense game. It is not designed for you to hold turrets up and defend. It is designed for you to push into their base. There is supposed to be an advantage in pushing vs turret building; they only exist to help you push the enemy out so that you can push out.

I'm not trying to be a ****, man. You don't need to be hostile. You are trying strategies that don't work. Don't build turrets unless it is to stop a quick wave of bots or to counter a hard push. Instead, focus on pushing your team forward.

As for juice chaining? The best way to counter juice chaining is to not let them juice chain. I don't know why people can't understand this concept better. If you didn't let them get that 9 kill streak out of the gate in the first place, they wouldn't have the funds to buy juice like they are.

If somebody comes at you with juice, you can:

Assassin - grapple them; smoke bomb them

Gunner: Slam them, gun them down if you catch them off guard, double grapple them

Assault: Bomb them away from you, grapple them, charge them off of a cliff. If they chase you, fly + charge + turn off fly.

Tank: Charge, product bomb, grapple

Sniper: Double grapple, ringout grapple, ice traps devastate juiced players

Support: Airstrikes, airstrike grapples, if you're in mid, drop a firebase where you stand so that if he doesnt stop to kill it, it buys your team a little extra time to get somebody in there to hold the map control while everybody's gone.

On crowd controlling, Undercover_Thudercat pretty much covered everything. One more thing you can do though, especially as an Assault or Assassin, is make them chase you. Players generally want to kill players more than turrets, so take advantage of that and make them run after you. I'm protected countless turrets having juiced players chase after me, and they usually don't even get the kill.