I personally felt that juice was just fine before the dreaded H patch was dropped on us (for those who dont get, 8 in Japanese is hachi), but some people are trying to say that one player should not be able to wreck an entire base. Apparently this is what Uber Entertainment was trying to address by the changes to the juice. This topic is for suggestions on alternative ways to accomplish this goal. Assume we went back to the previous juice system exactly. From there: #1: Keep the damage juice puts out, but let juice last a shorter amount of time. The player has less time to walk to another turret and can only take out one turret at a time. This avoid wrecking whole bases. It also addresses peoples whines about juicing on the Money Ball. #2: Keep juice damage and length, but after killing a turret while juiced, your juice bar drops by some amount, giving you less time to attack other turrets. Again you could only take out one turret, but if you choose to juice on something other than a turret you have more time. This could also be applied to a smaller degree on the Money Ball. Each shot drains your juice faster. #3: Drop only juice defense powers. The juicer can be killed more easily, preventing him or her from wrecking a properly defended base while rightfully punishing a team that leaves tons of turrets unguarded. This also forces him or her to juice more strategically since being surrounded by pros will still mean a likely death instead of an All-Time Great award. The best option is just to go back to the old juice system. With the buffs on turrets, juice wouldnt be such a problem. But if that is not possible, #1 or #2 may work fine. Suggestions/feedback also welcome. L. Spiro
You can get all-time-greats just as rarely without juice as with juice usually. NEW OPTION: Decrease juice's offence, while leaving it's defence. That way, you have more time to slash/burn before you die, and hopefully take down that turret. This also decreases moneyball damage, and juice's abuse against other players in gunfights (rifles and smgs should not be able to kill entire teams in 8 seconds). Still, I never considered the first option. The only problem with it, is that if you use it to try to get near the base, you may never make it to the turret before it runs out. So far, my favorites are option 1 and my new option. ichi, ni, san, shi, go, roku, shichi, hachi, ku, ju. The numbers 1-10. Rin, Kyo, Toh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Retsu, Zai, Zen. 9 Kuji, symbols or mantras, commonly used in martial arts and buddhism/taoism. I'm familiar with japanese. Biru Onegaishimasu!
I'd go with one. I could see increasing turret damage with the trade off of having a shorter juice in general. This to me would promote more focus on your objective, breaking defenses and getting out of there because you don't have time or an over extended armor pool.
They still kick ***. Generally, I like shortening juice and reboosting it. Like I said before, this would fix the same thing everyone wants to fix. As long as people stop using juice to "whip out the violin case" as sniper/assault and tommy-gun everyone down like it takes no skill (killing people while you are juiced really doesn't take much skill). Generally, juice could stand to keep it's damage and armor in trade for something else, like duration. I just want to say how much I love people buying skills and turrets and bots, instead of saving up for one juice rush after another. Thank God juice is only useful for absolutely necesary cases of turtle crushing, everyone can finally give those machines in the middle a break.
I though of another, which I now prefer over my previous suggestions (but they could be combined). It has been pointed out many times that it does not make much sense to lower a teams bot strength when their ball drops, rubbing vinegar on their wounds. In seeking rationalization, we must conclude that Uber Entertainments goal was simply to end the match faster and make the losing team lose instead of dragging on the match. The first point is that this is actually contradictory of the juice nerf, which certainly has caused matches to drag on and on. In game design there are 2 primary ways of making a game difficult. A: Give the player bad controls, or otherwise limit his or her abilities forcefully. B: Give the player his or her abilities, but provide a difficult obstacle to overcome. A is pretty common because B is harder to achieve, but no player likes A, and these games simply die off. The juice nerf creates an A scenario (though not a super-strong one). If I fail to break into a base, I would much have it be because the base was just stronger, instead of it being because I am much weaker. Conclusion: #4: Keep the juice as it was. Users felt a good rush of power that made the game fun. But increase the power of enemy bots while their ball is down, or increase some other type of opposition. If a turret hits a juicer, do extra damage? In fact, the result may become just the same as it is now. Maybe I still wont be able to take down a turret without help. But I wont feel as discouraged if it is because I met such heavy opposition along the way. Having all kinds of power but confronting a huge wall of opposition makes me want to try harder. Being a weakling that cant overcome standard defenses just makes me quit the game. Even if the result is the same, it is all about the psychology. Which just means you have to be more strategic with it, which I think is perfectly fine. If you cant get near their base of your own power, you wont have an effective juice. I think this solves a lot of the juice issues really. You just asked for a building. ??? (bi-ru) = beer. ?? (biru) = building. But that is okay. It is common for foreigners to ask for buildings at a bar. Also, shichi (7/?) is only used for telling time (and is always followed by ji). ?? (shichi-ji) = 7:00. In every other case, use nana. ???? = nana hiki no inu = 7 dogs. Anyway, ganbatte. L. Spiro
Didn't say I was perfect. Notice me using romanized japanese. But please, i'd like that building. In other bad pronunciation news, in spanish it is common for foreigners to describe things as fruit, because the color orange and the food orange are naranja and anaranjado (I believe respectively). Please check the wishlist. I recommended some of these suggestions. 1) Overtime back. 2) Stronger bots when the ball is down (spawn with an overheal instead of half health) 3) Juice Comprimise. Maybe Juicers could have 3x armor/damage to turrets, and 2x armor/damage vs enemy pros. Or, just make juice 3x damage and 2x armor so they can still be beat but are able to drop turrets too. [While we are discussing languages, that is bi-ru? I don't get it, all syllables of japanese words are emphasized and syllables are at every vowel. Does that mean a pause then, or is there actually different emphasis between the different worlds? OR, is it pronounced exactly the same?]
It means you should stretch the sound. Make the bi more like biii. Stretching of sounds is not very common in words of Japanese origin (bi-ru and biru are Japanese takes on English words) but when it happens it is important to pronounce it correctly. ?? = un = yes ??? = u-n = no The stretch makes the meaning the exact opposite. Also, the rules on emphasizing are a bit more complicated than at every syllable. ? = hashi = chopsticks ? = hashi = bridge The kanji are different but both are hashi. Chopsticks is pronounced HAshi, whereas bridge is pronounced haSHI. Capitol letters here indicate emphasis by being a higher pitch (not emphasis by being louder). Ganbatte. L. Spiro
I appreciate the quick lesson. I didn't need the emphasis part, I know what an emphasis is after 4 years of spanish and quite a bit of japanese too. An emphasis is this thingy. Igualmnte. It is a bit different to have more than one per word though, but learning differences is nice. Ore Ni Makasero.
My suggestion, allow juice pickups to refill half as much juice while juiced. I have no problems with the current strength of juice, but I always thought this just made sense. Unfortunately, before this patch would have been OP as ****. Now it's reasonable. You won't get juice pickups once bots are taken care of, so it's not like your juice will ever be entirely doubled(or most likely even come close). Combined with the juiced money nerf and it should be perfectly reasonable to allow longer juices.
To help out the devs (or anyone who wants to understand the feedback in this thread), salomdi said (basically) that he likes #3. People can be killed, but they can also kill turrets. This was originally my least favorite of my own suggestions, but in retrospect it is not so bad. Small details aside, good work on your sentence, salomdi. But be careful of the spelling of turret. It should be ?????. Katakana is so hard to use because you never know when to use a ? or ?. I always have to look up the proper spellings when using Katakana. Arseface, I never noticed juice pick-ups actually having an effect while juiced, but it could be that they help so little the effect is gone nearly instantly. My bar doesnt go up as high as it does without juice though, for sure. I always thought the juice you get while juiced should be stored until the current juice expires, then after your bar reaches zero it slides up to the amount of juice representing what you have stored. L. Spiro
Currently, they don't get you juice but you still pick them up. It's a waste of a pickup the way it is now. I was suggesting that as a possible change that I felt makes sense. I would have suggested it before, but that would have been so OP it wouldn't have been funny. would work too, but juice chaining could become a serious problem if it worked that way. Juice is essentially a clutch heal, and if you take out some bot waves on your way to the base you can net almost a full bar of juice to just renew your assault on the base while inside.
Normally I prefer square rather than squaresquare, but in any case I'd use squaresquaresquare to keep the moneyball down. L. Spiro
After having some really good matches I must say that I am more in favor of three. Overhealing a juicer is still important. Team juicing is still potent The reverted Turret damage should make it easy if no one is paying attention. Cons Assassin juice is still not potent due to further armor reduction.
