Idea for Sniper. (insert better title here)

Oh, that's interesting...

Making headshots not an instant kill would really inhibit the class. Since we have health regeneration, it makes it easy for the enemy to realize they've been shot and duck behind cover and regenerate the shot that you had placed so well. Especially for more mobile classes like the assault.

The difference between the sniper and other classes is that he can't chase his enemies down, and because he can't do that he's unable to finish off a target if they duck behind cover.

Why should we balance a game that could very well be competitive for the sake of the casuals? Also, the assassin being hard doesn't stop people from failing with her every chance they get. And iirc all your ideas also made it harder for casual MNC players to play Sniper as well. By your logic, shouldn't we make the Sniper easier?

To Fluttershy:

Oh no, for once the Sniper can't confirm a kill yet can still force the enemies in their base. I don't see the problem with this. At least now some classes have a chance of survival rather than being completely shut down by one class. When assisted by an Assault or Gunner there is absolutely no way to get into a Sniper. Now Gunners can get those last few mortars in to force the Sniper out of his perch for a while. Maybe we could actually cover some ground with more than the Assault, who if I may add still has quite a bit of trouble. This is a simple matter of over centralization, where you need a specific strategy involving multiple classes simply to counter one class who can still potentially have the upper hand.

Maybe before claiming a class will be useless you actually think about how much this is actually going to affect things. With my nerfs, the Sniper no longer becomes some omnipotent force that can completely block off an access point safely from across the map. Now gunners have more than a fighting chance yet Snipers still have the ability to put players in there place for taking a wrong step. Whats wrong with giving Sniper more counters?

LOL @ l9 reference

Wish they would make it do 500 damage with a knock down like the tanks level 3 charge.
Would be lol for mid air headshots.

I think changing Sniper for the sole reason of avoiding randomness is a bad idea. Bad players will still randomly spam shots hoping for kills. No matter how "difficult" you make it, random kills will happen. You want to change Assault grenades to avoid their spam too?

It's also a punishment to good players that ADS snipe(Snugg). Punishing good players because someone gets a lucky kill is just a piss poor way of attempting to balance something that can't be balanced.

Possible fix could be adding a timer(similar to tf2) but only after a shot. The timer would prevent headshots until it refills, and it should take twice(possibly thrice) the time it takes to fire again to refill the bar.

Not bolt action, hurts spammers but not skilled players, any thoughts?

I think Uber didn't wanted to add Damage meter while being in zoom because TF2 has one already.
Other players would nagg about this. "HURR DURR THIS IS LIKE TF2. UBER U SUCK. U DONT HAVE ANY IDEAS"

Decrease damage on bodyshots?
I mean If you hit arm It doesn't take the same damage as in torso hit.

And I think Uber can't change a recoil in sniper rifle because they show'd that in Scouting Reports (zero recoil).

My ideas shamelessly copy pasted from the OP class thread.

Coming from someone who does almost nothing but play sniper, I feel we do need a couple slight nerfs.

Quickscoping at close range is a bit idiotic, if theres a way to implement a damage increase based on range, and targets in freeze traps, I feel it'd be amazing. Enforce body shot damage on any and all targets at extremely close ranges (Think SMG does **** for damage ranges) UNLESS they're stuck in a freeze trap, in which case they can be headshot for a one shot kill. Results of a change like this? Clever trap placement, and offensive play+area denial will still be well rewarded, and the asshat snipers who just run around spam quickscoping with dots on their screen will be punished harshly for it; It'll force them to use SMGs to do any half decent damage at close ranges (Its intended purpose, I would hope.)

In addition, I feel our ROF, and benefit from ROF perks should be reduced a fair bit for the sniper rifles. Snipers as an image, are not built around spam, they're the embodiment of precise, skillful shot placement. With so many snipers playing the "LOL SPAM LEAD INTO THE AIR, FREE UNEARNED HEADSHOTS" sort of game, its very easy to see where a lot of you are coming from. Its a **** way to play, and completely contradictory to how a sniper should play (Imo). It shouldn't be encouraged via the sheer bonus ROF endorsements give us, nor should it be permitted through them.



To expand/debate on the topics present in this thread however;

Bolt action, or forcing re-scopes after shots I feel would be over the top, and changing the way a sniper plays, and feels in MNC. Sure it would get rid of the spam, but so would a basic ROF reduction on the sniper rifle (And it wouldn't be such a huge change to code, and a basic mechanics and style change.)

Accuracy reductions whilst moving, jumping et cetera, would also be a big hit to the way really good snipers play. Midair headshots, weaving and juking in sniper v sniper wars, and our mobility would all be absolutely destroyed by sway during movement. A change like this would raise the skill floor, lower the skillcap of snipers, and really work to lower the gap and blend together the snipers in MNC, style and personalities would no longer really show; Not a good thing by any measure, in my opinion.

We really don't need bot damage changes, 2 HS'ing Blackjacks, and 1 shotting slims is perfectly fine bot damage, coupled with flak, we really don't need a change in that area in any regard.

As for removing headshots... Why half *** it? Remove the class instead. Headshots and area denial via threat of one hit kills are the hallmarks of the sniper class, remove them and you kill the class and role.

Removing the snare for our traps... I have strong feelings against, our traps in the grand scheme of things, are already pretty weak considering how easily they're countered. I know that as a sniper, I can effortlessly jump over the super majority of traps; The only ones I can't dodge, are the ones placed at the top of jump pads. Support and Sins share this burden, while Assaults, Tanks, and Gunners can avoid them via using their jet packs at the top of their pads to fly over the trap. By removing the snare, and our ability to OHKO people who aren't paying attention to the ground (And lets face it, you don't always get OHKO'd if you get snared), you're creating a more casual(Read:Bad) friendly environment because there isn't punishment for lack of vigilance. If anything should be changed about our traps, I'd say the snare aftereffect should be reduced in duration, and the slowing effects lessened.

Power for shots similiar to TF2, I'm not even going to go into.

Shot recoil, I'm slightly on the fence, but leaning towards favorable. With a ROF reduction, recoil would essentially be made a nonfactor, if recoil were added without any changes to our ROF however, it would act in the same way that ROF Red. would; It would inhibit spam, and reward good players (After learning how to manage/Predict/Adjust for the recoil). In the latter scenario I feel this won't really have enough of a needed nerf to the top tier of snipers, however. Eventually top players won't even notice the recoil, and it'll be like no change ever happened in regards to it.

As for bodyshot reduction, its already happened, what we have right now I feel is perfect.

Jesus, hows that for a wall of text?

This is a wall of text.

Anywho, I thought that the forced unscoping combined with being able to stay in scope with one mouse click would work hand in hand for the mobile Sniper.

These ideas would be quite simple to implement without changing the overall feel of the Sniper class. One thing I would like though, and this is just preference, is an option to allow the right click to stay in zoom instead of needing to keep the right mouse button held down. My hand gets quite shaky when I'm holding the button down, making the Sniper quite difficult to use.

Why should we disallow the sniper from confirming kills? The assault and assassin currently are the classes most capable of chasing enemies down, and the Tank can be up there too, when a Tank charges at you at level 3, you have no way to defend yourself or even get a shot on the Tank before dying, so why should we allow people to best the sniper where he preforms best?

If a Sniper is backed up by his teammates, he should have an advantage.

And if you put a single sniper on your team, the enemy sniper suddenly has to be more conscious, since he can go down just as easily as he can down someone else.

No to recoil, period. There are no weapons in this game with recoil, it should stay this way.

And I tried to keep the power shot suggestion fairly separate from TF2. It isn't applied to the first shot, meaning quickscopes are allowed. It doesn't reduce bodyshot damage on the second shot so that bodyshot spam is still allowed for bot groups(bot clearing requires explosive round spam), just without the risk of headshots on players.

It would make precision nessesary on pros without hurting bot killing ability. No recoil, no bolt action(Actually, do you even need to unscope with a bolt action rifle? Can't snipers just do that naturally?) hopefully no bitching.

I also don't like that similarities to TF2 mean it's immediately shut down as an idea. TF2 had a bunch of solid mechanics that could easily transition to other games well. And there are other games that share way more similarities to eachother than MNC has with TF2. They don't get bitched at. TF2 has overheals, come up with new mechanics nubs. Oh and bomb jumping, man you guys suck. Oh, man don't get me started on the firebases being sentry guns, blatant copypasta. Completely different games with a few similar mechanics(not even completely the same). I don't see the big deal with adding another one.

If anyone has issues with my idea not involving it being similar to TF2, I would love to hear them. Even if it doesn't get added by default I'd like to make it a mod once support comes out, your input might help me balance it.

And I totally agree with this.

tl;dr walls of text prompt more walls of text. We're stuck in an infinite cycle.