No, the Support is NOT fine

Listen guys. I know you want to defend the game. And I can't blame you. It really is a great game, and I expect to be playing it for a long time to come.

However. We need to talk about the Support a little bit. I know there are other topics, but I'd like to get a fresh, mature discussion in this one rather than the "NO UR JUST A NOOB LOL" I have read in the other topics. I'll try to gather all my thoughts on the supports.

Firstly, I'll address the things I like. The heal/hurt gun is nice. It's also something I feel is NOT overpowered. It adds a bit of skill to the Support, allows him to be a little offensive, and gives him a tool needed to survive. I also like the health and armor he has, even with perks. I feel health-wise, he's very well balanced. I also like the hacking function. It gives him a very unique edge on base turrets which is very much needed in this game.

Now, for the things I think need fixing. And to be honest, there are really only 2 (and a half). The first and main one being the air strikes. Now, it's an interesting concept to be sure. But I really don't feel as though handing the Support class an item that instantly kills anything on the map is a good idea. I would propose that perhaps the damage, range, cooldown, or some combination of the 3 be nerfed. Not overly, just enough that the Support isn't walking around with a portable nuke.
EDIT: I thought of a way to make this less of a nerf. Make the damage nerf be the norm, but let the air strike do its current 1-shot kill damage when stuck to something. That way, Supports still have a counter for deployed Gunners and Tanks.

The only other thing I feel needs to be fixed is the Firebase, and only slightly. I have 3 changes to propose, and they would be slight. A slight damage and health decrease, for one. What this would do is make the Firebase a good poke weapon for when the Support is not around, but make it a good go-to weapon for when he is hanging around it. My other change would be to give it the same turning radius as a deployed Tank or Gunner. This will force the Support to actually place it tactically, give the Firebase a much needed counter, and lower the amount of griefing that is possible with it.

These are the only changes I feel really need to be made immediately. However, perhaps a SLIGHT decrease in power for the shotgun would be in order. I know he needs it to deal with Assassins, but I really don't feel the Support should have a weapon that can 2-shot the tank, even with an armor endorsement.

Now, for the reasoning. I know that no one wants the Support to be boring. That's understandable, and I get it. However, I feel that the Supports need to be more defensively-focused for two reasons. The first of which being, every other class in the game is pretty much purely offensively played. We need some defense in our games. On top of this, whether or not you guys want to admit it, right now, the Support is the griefing class. It's gotten to the point where 3 to 4 of my friends will pick support and set up camp outside the enemy base purely for the sake of being obnoxious. Of course there are counters to this, but the simple fact of the matter is, there are not enough. Especially considering the Support needs to be a defensively-focused class.

Now, these are all my opinions, and as such, I'm not claiming them all to be completely and 100% right. I just figured I would give me 2 cents on the Support debate. I would appreciate it if all of the replies in this thread could be kept mature (I assure you, I'm not a scrub, and I know how to deal with Supports), and if you disagree, please tell me why. Don't just say they have plenty of counters and I'm bad and should feel bad. If you honestly believe the Supports are fine, tell the community why. If you agree with me, and feel that a few slight adjustments are needed, tell me why. Unsupported (pun not intended) agreements or disagreements don't accomplish anything.

Once again, I'd like to thank Uber for a surprisingly fun game, and I hope you guys continue to support it for years to come.

i can agree with some of what your saying like the air strikes for example and the turn radius for the firebase but the others i can not. see you just have to know now to deal with a fire base as the plenty of skills and weapon for dealing with them tank have it with there lvl3 nades followed by there jetgun,snipers with explosive shots,gunner have motors,assult hae his nade gun.



next the shotgun what i dont understand is people wanting to nerf this thing its not a problem it not like mw2 models 1887s you pretty much have to shove done a player thoat to get a one hitter and thats only for snipers and stealth class tank and gunner have mult ways to deal with them way before they get that 2-3 killing shot off

Like I said, the shotgun is the least of my worries.

The main thing with a Firebase is if they're set up in the right spot with a Support or two standing nearby, it becomes ridiculously challenging to get them out, and it shouldn't be like that.

whiners whine more.

Lol, we need another thread with the same argument.
Awesome.

Wow. I do believe I said mature responses. I'm not whining, I'm proposing changes I feel would be helpful to the game.

You guys should honestly be ashamed. I posted this thread on GameFAQS, and they're being more mature about it than you lot are.

Did you bother to search? Use forum etiquette if you don't wish to be disregarded. It's the same argument that three highly populated threads have produced.

You're unhappy, and that's great. Use the search function.
These forums are have turned in to a cesspool full of "constructive criticism".

yeah really. It's all about whinig, and it's very fun how like 50% of that it's against the support, a perfectly fine class.

Too bad that everybody's more concerned about rushing and killing people like nothing, and they don't realize that the support is the only class that needs a bit of tought to be killed, or to kill with. If you get raped by a firebase, it's your fault face it. if you get hit by an airstrike, you got triked or you weren't carefull. if you died from shotgun, you're an idiot.

shotguns are meant to kill quickly close range. they are shotguns. also if the airstrikes are bad, so are the sniper traps and assault c4. you can't destory those two things without killing the pro or walking on them. also, the heal/hurt gun has no range to it as does the shotgun, so for the support to have the firebase and airstrike balances out his offensive nature.

Wow. Well, since I'm getting no other response than "Other topics" and "you're bad", I'll take my mature discussion of the game elsewhere. I'm actually pretty sad, because I'm worried about the quality of the community of this game now.

For the record, before you start flaming me cause this is the first day ive posted on this site, ive been watching this forum for a while and decided to make an account to give my opinion.

Shotguns probably have that ridiculously close range not because you need to chase someone with it, its most likely so you can deal with threats that need to close in on your position. For example, defending your firebase or in-base turret or defending the back of a deployed gunner. In otherwords its a defensive weapon, not an offensive one. Given that their name is "Support" as in supporting other players, i doubt it was the developers intentions to have invincible firebases closing off every exit to the opposing teams bases or shotguns killing tanks in 2 or 3 shots. As it stands the support class just has way too many options available to them offensively when they're clearly a defensive based class and i really think people are forgetting this. Right now the only people defending this imbalance are the people that are most likely exploiting it.

NO other class has a one-shot kill to a player besides a headshot, which by the way is almost impossible to get on a support class... it seems like the hitbox is just way smaller, and the firebases 360 degree radius makes it almost impossible to counter when its stuck right in front of your bot spawner killing all of your bots with a support healing it around the corner. Not to mention the firebase can heal the support... really? For this reason i completely agree with the SLIGHT changes to the support class.

Personally, i play assassin, and i dont go anywhere near supports with their firebase up until its down. So, there seems to be no weakness to that play (as an assassin) until the firebase is destroyed... which kinda sucks. Luckily shurikens take it out with a few volleys.

As for the overheal, i dont think it should double any one classes health. Especially since it makes Jackbots damn near impossible to kill.... instead the overheal amount should be a set number for every class or bot.

Edit: Assault c4 only 1 shots assassins with no armor. and traps freeze you in place, not 1 shot you.

Thank you, that's a lot of what I was trying to get at, as I believe most of the people flaming this thread didn't bother to read through my OP, as I believe I raise a few new and different points that other posters haven't.

The main thing is, Supports are built to be a defensive class, but right now, they have too many options offensively.

Here's the thing. If the game was balanced completely around Supports, they'd be fine. But as it is, they have too many counters to other classes, not enough counters for themselves, and far, FAR more options offensively AND defensively than any other class.

EDIT: I am NOT saying Supports are invincible, have no counters, and can never be stopped. I'm saying they are far too versatile for a class-based game, especially for a DEFENSIVE-focused class.
EDIT2: For the people who honestly think I'm just blowing smoke, I have a proposition for you. Play a day, a single day, of MNC Crossfire online not playing the Support. Play any other class you want, just don't play the Support. And notice how radically the game changes, and how difficult it becomes to counter an enemy support.

You'd be surprised at how many of the people arguing against you play as support. It's always a telltale sign really. The support is an immovable object which can accrue money and juice insanely easily. With juice, it's devastating, as is any pro - and its money is far more useful than any other classes - as their bot is so, so effective.

Going on the juice thing. The juiced up hurt gun kills me instantly. I dont even see my health drain, i just die... not to mention they hardly have to aim with it.

I think Air Strikes should kill on direct hit but they shouldn't stick to opponents. That's just silly. But something has to be nerfed to take away just a little bit of offensive damage output that the Support is capable of. It does so much on both sides of offense and defense.

It's Xbox Live.

What are ya gonna do?

For what it's worth, I totally agree with you =P

Firebases are my number one issue with Supports. They are difficult to take down at range as I leave myself exposed (assassin) and they are instant death up close.

Also ran into a Support today who just kept spamming GapBots - great tactic, but man that sucked hardcore.

The Gap Shot is just another issue to add on to the whole joke as it is. On one of the maps, literally as I stepped outside, I saw shells in the air, plumetting onto our rocket turret. By the time it was outside of its own base our rocket turret was in pretty bad shape. It's ludicrous to think a team should -have- to run ALL of the way to the enemy base to kill the gapshots every time a support decides to spend $100. Of course, these bots balance is one of the more contentious issues.

Buzzers, Bouncers, and Gremlins all seem similarly efficient - and all very different. The scrambler is utter, utter horseshit... and then the gapshot is an absolute nightmare and two of them will quickly level even level 3 turrets. It's one thing if you are controlling the map but if you are having an even game where you both have half of the map or so, just stopping them from taking out all your turrets is a real difficulty - not exactly reasonable considering they cost just $100.

What I'd really like to see is what Uber say about the support. If they ignore this.. what a waste of a great game frankly.

As someone has said before, if they pull an Infinity Ward and just ignore the problems, this will end up a very dead game very quickly.

They should to an Uber Weekly Update, like Bungie, to give us a glimpse inside the studio and what's happening behind the scenes.

ill give it to you, the firebase is definately overpowered, but they aren't invincible. Mine get taken out all the time. almost ever class has some sort of explosive device. Blow the thing up then.

p.s brehh.
I'm not trying to flame you. If I were, I would have atleast told you to go cry on a different site.