Viability of Assassins? Post-Nerf (NO LUNGE GRAPPLES)

Now when assassins suicide rush tanks, this acctually happens :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ8VQwIIY2U

that is surprisingly accurate.

Re: Viability of Assassin's Juice? Post-Nerf

Why on earth would you do something as stupid as that?

Your balance complaints have absolutely no understanding of where the problem (if any) lies. Grenade launcher damage itself is not very high and gets beat by just about anything in juice, I think even the assault rifle does more up close.

The attach bomb damage is the only thing worth speaking about a reduction since it does 10% of the health of the money ball.

Fireman no offense but you clearly haven't used a RoF nadelauncher against the moneyball while under the effect of juice, it's the fastest way in this game to kill the core in combination with the bomb.

Re: Viability of Assassin's Juice? Post-Nerf

What? :| If I recall, only the shotgun does more damage to the moneyball than the grenade launcher juiced, and a Support doesn't have half the Assault's maneuverability.

If I was a Mod, i'd lock this thread for being off topic, then I'd ban myself for this post. :lol:

But in all seriousness, The Assassin is still a good class for skilled users, /thread.

Looking through current hostilebalance.ini I see this:

(No endorsements, no juice. Just multiply by the same factor for each to get whatever value you need)

Assault Rifle -> 78/sec
Grenades -> 75/sec

Shotgun -> 101.25/sec
H/H -> unknown (60/sec?)

Double mini -> 136/sec
3xMortar -> 39.6/sec

Jetgun -> 99/sec
Plasma Rifle -> 40.23/sec

Sniperrifle -> 50/sec
SMG -> 97.5/sec

Sword -> 18.75/sec (haha, stupid assassins that use this while juiced)
Shurikans -> 100.4/sec

So it does beat out some "long range" weapons but not all. Shurikans really are crazy good. Up close it loses horribly to actual killer weapons, i.e. where you would actually be able to use your bombs.

You don't factor in clip size, you don't factor in reload speed. Besides the possibility for the assault to use it from really far away is another huge plus for him, in terms of overall ability he is the number 1 core killer.

I already mentioned that.

Up close when you can use the bomb is the same as when all the other classes get to use those killer weapons on the core.

Bomb attach damage is the only thing worth considering for adjusting. The grenade launcher is not.

Even with full juice assault grenade launch and bomb attach, I can only do ~40% in 10 seconds. In overtime with "everybody gets bacon" stupidity, that goes to 60% or higher. Mainly from the clip size improvement as you don't need to reload with 20 shots.

As his name would imply...

what's with all these assassin players thinking they should be able to walk into a base, alone, and leave it in ruins and escape untouched?

Because tank players seem to do it somehow? I have no idea.

With an opposing team that has 2 or so decent tanks it's almost pointless to play assassin unless your team is providing great support.

Re: Viability of Assassin's Juice? Post-Nerf

Normally, I wouldn't risk going off topic, but...

It is on topic as far as nerfs and where they belong goes...

So, really, ever seen an assault kill the moneyball on his own, from the center of steel peel, with his grenade launcher, and win despite the enemy team hitting his with 2 assassins?

The bomb is a problem, could use the same kind of moneyball damage nerf, but you need to be somewhat close to use it. Yes, you can get to the top of the moneyball ring and do it fairly safely, IF THE ENEMY TEAM HAS NEVER PLAYED MNC BEFORE. I personally wait to reject anyone using that opening in overtime, it is a 2 meter wide opening and you can guard it quite easily, and some maps you can deny it altogether with enough turrets (some being shaveice).

Sum it up, assassin is complained about, but wasn't overpowered and this small change doesn't affect that either way. Assault isn't really overpowered, bar that he can kill the moneyball and regen bombs a little bit too fast. Only necesary nerf in my opinion that will be necesary, is grenade launcher getting a 10% damage nerf perhaps, and bomb taking 3 more seconds to regenerate perhaps... but DEFINITELY both getting a moneyball damage nerf that makes the assault require at least little more than 3 juices to destroy the moneyball with silver rate, just like 20% or so less moneyball damage?

Re: Viability of Assassin's Juice? Post-Nerf

How about you don't try to assassinate people when there's someone round the corner?

I know PC is fairly new and all, but are there really so few good players on PC? Curious.

Re: Viability of Assassin's Juice? Post-Nerf

@brotranquility I've posted the stats before. Grenade launcher does less DPS to moneyball than most other classes. Its only 75dmg per shot with 1 second per shot. Shotgun does 105 per shot with 1second per shot.

The only real advantage that the assault has when killing moneyball with grenade launcher is SAFETY due to range. But his damage is pathetic without the use of bomb (which is significantly too strong.)

---

Also I've recently been playing assassin more since the patch and doing far better than I did before the patch. Last game I played I had over 100bot kills, 8 turret kills, and was 24k/12assist/5death and Assassin is my least played class by a fairly large margin.

I'd say that if anything her turret killing strength when juiced is still far too great but she is much closer to balanced now.

I've had only 1 missed grapple from lag, and no problem with lunge-grappling people from behind. Health is fine if you learn to play less outright aggressively and play the class more like an assassin and less like an unstoppable killing machine. Sometimes you DON'T want to engage an enemy right away when he has 3 pals next to him and a bot wave.

For those complaining that you can no longer charge head long at an opponent and still get a near guaranteed back grapple by exploiting a long time bug; understand that it was just that, an exploit, not intended mechanics. It took us a while to determine exactly why it was possible, the previous patch's "air grapples" helped to expose the flaw.

As for the issue of no longer being able to lunge grapple, this was not removed and is in fact still possible. Some code was changed that appears to have inadvertently made the lunge behavior less predictable for clients. We'll look in to remedying this in future patches. Until then, try aiming a little more in front of players instead of at them when they're moving.

Believe me... I noticed. X|

Oddly enough, someone did manage to backgrapple me after lunging at my front earlier

So everybody else has a hitscan weapon and we Sins have to lead our targets now... :3

Please take a look again at the grapple itself as well. I had several matches where I missed a lot of grapples although I was on a low ping server and my connection was very good. I rage quit out of the match because I thought I was ping spiking but I checked and I was not. >(-.-)<

Thank you for the info Ben, it's really appreciated!

Just fyi, each weapon has a different dmg multiplier when damaging the money ball / turrets / people / and bots

Yes, Scathis told everyone this.

Again, off topic, but the grenade launcher takes it down wickedly fast. That is what needs balanced. Even if it is 10% less (and the bomb 20%), the bomb is preventable by a good team but the grenade launcher isn't. Idfc what hostilebalance says, it does 1/50 damage to the moneyball without juice, meaning with a rate endorsement it destroys moneyball so fast.

It is the speed it takes him to destroy it, if you test it then it's ridiculous that a team that switches entirely to default assault can gurantee an overtime victory, and that a single assault with juice beats 2 assassins with juice.

Why do you think your suggestion will do anything? The bomb is the killer, accounting for between 30 and 50% of the total damage done when the assault gets close.

It's the bomb attach that you have problems with not the grenade launcher. Every other class beats the assault in damage to the money ball if you don't count the bomb. Even the sniper!