Modding Tools

Lol? You've got it the wrong way around, brudda, the Xbox version just came out first. The restrictions of the console system have already rendered it inferior to the PC version, in terms of support. I don't think you can appreciate just how small the studio is. They can't just throw 30 people at a task and get it slammed out in a week.

january till now != a week

Yeah, I'm sorry but saying "editor support coming soon" in december/january and then its march and still not having it is kind of ridiculous.

I know they are a very small team, and thats awesome, but still...

It's not hard work to respond to a forum post.

You can throw one person very easily at the task of responding to one of the longest running threads in the community even if just to say "Hi, we're still working on it. No eta yet." Or, "Not working on it right now. Will let you know if/when we do." Probably take about as much effort and manpower as it would to, say, comment on someone's assassin wallpaper.

Unfortunately, the justifiable growing contempt throughout this post will probably ensure that no dev responds to it because of an apparent lack of respect. I can say for certain on my own behalf that quite the contrary is true. I love this game, and I wholly appreciate the effort that went in to it and continues to. Part of me just wishes that the devs didn't set the precedent of being so active in this community only to go back on that when it matters most to me.

/notbitter

At the very least wait till after PAX. They're very busy coming up with stuff to show off for that. Hell it might even be the sdk.

I don't think you read that correctly.

i'm waiting , still waiting :?

It has been two days. They are at PAX showing off the game and maybe new content. They are super busy right now. But since you seem to have some time, why not start making concepts for new maps?

We have a thread dedicated to post-mod support ideas. Any and all ideas are welcome.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8230

This seemed a bit mean.
I understand it can be hard listening to people criticize MNC or Uber, but the anxiousness IS natural. I mean no disrespect, I just don't like people getting angry. I can only see this line as being fuel for some anti-mod rage from people, and I don't want that. I couldn't help reading this post without getting some "STFU" chills.

To everyone else, it will come. Creating a system where a person can change the game without breaking(actual BREAKING not balance) is one hell of a task.

Basically they have to:
find everything that can be changed
allow said things to be changed
delegate the conditions said things can be changed
decide what cannot be changed
prevent what cannot be changed from being influenced by the things that can
implement the changes into server creation whilst maintaining the ability to play on other servers with different mods from your own
and debug

That on its own sounds like remaking half of the game. I'm also sure I forgot things(not a programmer).

The devs understand the game will die(or at least be reduced to a very marginal existence) without mod support on the PC. They put too much work into this game to let that happen. They aren't publicly releasing information because they want to prevent another "WHY DID YOU MISS THE DEADLINE" flood. They will release the information AFTER it is done, not before.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Is that an official statement or your opinion?

Official statement. Eka told me the same thing why I ask him about stuff.

ok, concept #1 (crossfire)

-floating city like
-3lanes with bots
-lanes seperated like highways(?)/or seperated by buildings(?) (glass is prolly cooler, but i dunno yet, haven't mapped in mnc yet)
-turrets on those lanes (like dota)
-2 more overhanging lanes without bots possibly crossing eachother at some point)
-annihilator either far to the side, or somewhere in the open, or somewhere on a lonely small platform
-ejectors near each of the lane turrets (?)
-juice... think dota where therune thingys are, or those thingys you can pickup anyway,
so like, somewhere centralised, but not on a bot lane

concept #2 (crossfire)

-powerplant like, (think nuclear powerplants with those huge round shizzle)
-3 of those round arena thingys, middle one large, other 2 small, layed out in a diagonal line
-to the other side a "normal" lane (thus say, left = normal lane, to the right you walk in to small arena
-both sides end up in big arena, on the side of it (like steel peel, but i imagine the main arena to have less glass/sightlines then steel peel, or at least make the bot lanes not as close to eachother)
-maybe some extra routes via jumppads/smoke/bombs/jetpack
-annihilator high up in middle arena (so it takes a mildly longish time to get there + it isn't really viable to stay there (hopefully anyway))
-juice... hmm... small arenas? not sure
-ejectors... not sure

-concept 3 (blitz)

-Small maze (possibly with ALL-glass?)
-turrets able to setup along the maze (think tower defense maps/game)
-only base turrets = ring turrets?
-rest i dunno yet, just wanna know wether this would be viable/fun

conceptualizing stuff much beyond this is hard though, since i'm not sure what/how stuff can be done without the actual tools, (could make basic layout sketches in paint/whatever though, i guess)

In the meantime, people are paying to host their own servers without much to do with them other than change class limits and match times. I fear that the community I play with will cease to host theirs sooner rather than later without any official word to assure us that tools are still on the way.

When you miss a deadline, it's not very professional to just pretend you didn't and get all tight-lipped. You shouldn't have sympathy for people avoiding justifiable confrontation in a professional setting. This is their business. Take some responsibility and own up to your mistakes. We are not children. If you are communicative and honest, people will respect you and they won't care if it takes another 6 months to get the tools.

If it's proving far too difficult to get done in a timely fashion, don't just hide. It's like a gradeschooler trying to feign sickness so he doesn't have to go to school and face the teacher without his science report done.

Sorry, but again, as much as I love the game and appreciate the effort that went in to it, I get tired of people being so quick to defend unprofessional behavior. If you want something to get done, you don't coddle and support the wrong kind of behavior. You have to call em out. I guarantee that the moment official word is given on the status of modding/admin tools, that anyone participating in this thread who has been frustrated will feel immediate relief and renewed respect for all of Uber.

EDIT: And sorry, but if I don't see your name in red, it's not an official statement.

I want to see these maps. Especially the Blitz one, blitz needs some more zest.

Have you followed Black Mesa? Do you remember the HUGE stink it made when they missed the deadline a few years ago? **** happens, and it is easier to get stuff done by keeping quiet than letting people in on every little detail. The public has a way of twisting words, distorting them so that they can hold it over you and call you a liar. I doubt they will get anything but hate from the community if they miss another deadline, which is VERY possible if they publicly announce another one. Even if they post a "where we are at now" people will use that to create a made-up deadline in their head. They are preventing massive rage by giving us a little frustration. I think they have taken the better route, and not just because I'm fawning over uber.
Black mesa may have been a bad example, it's still not out. But then again, those people aren't getting paid.

Nothing I say can be "official" unless I have a direct quote, which I am generally too lazy to do. This has sort of been their policy at this juncture though, so I like to think it's an informed opinion.

I'm not asking for a deadline of any kind. All I know is that a release date was given and missed and there hasn't been any official word that they are even still trying that I know of. Why would they want to just up and surprise a community down the road with "hey look, here are some cool tools out of the blue that you weren't expecting" if half or more of that community had already given up hope and moved on to something else? All I'm asking for is something to tide us over, my friend. I don't know why people keep failing to see that it is all I'm asking for.

I am disappointed in the lack of communication from the devs regarding the status of mod tools. Many MNC players will tell you the game is getting stale. The community was told the tools would be made available months ago. Without the devs giving their fans any info regarding tools, along with the long ago missed deadline, one can only assume there is nothing coming in the near future. At the end of the month I will likely cancel my rented servers. Players might come back if modding tools are released, but soon people won't care one way or another. They will have already moved to something else.

TL;DR MNC fans are this close || to moving on to another game since the devs can't be bothered to put out a status update on mod tools.

ahhh, when i saw the patch, i'll admit i had a little bit of hope it could have the ever so sought after tools, yet alas, not yet

will have to wait a bit more i guess....

To be fair, Black Mesa also made a big deal about the deadline. If you say "we will hopefully make a release around X date" there is going to be less angry fans than if you say "We are doing a major press release, doing interviews, and setting a date promising a release at a specific time. Also we are releasing a teaser video for it."

Team Meat said they were going to try and have a level editor/level portal released around january to early febuary. They still haven't released it, yet people are willing to work with the archaic "devmode" hack that was found, and have been extremely patient.

The problem is also when you set an expected date and not only MISS that date, but miss it BY A LOT. People will generally be more forgiving if announce "next month we will have feature x!" and then you end up taking an additional month to finish it. But look at black mesa again, they said they were releasing at the end of '09, its 1/4th of the way through '11. That is a pretty major missed date.

If you don't keep your promises people get pissed, but if you don't give them any information it gives a sense you don't care about them, and/or are arrogant(even if you do care, and are not.)

All people want is some reassurance.

A teaser trailer showing their ideas for what the modding tools can do, a couple devs talking to the camera, a screenshot of an example modifier and a coming soon in the next few months.

Not that hard/time consuming, and it gives people hope and reassurance. But when dev's ignore stuff, especially a dev team that is so awesome about interacting with the community it is scary. We worry something is wrong, or that the tools aren't coming at all. That they changed their minds, or that it is their absolute last priority.

While a trailer or featurette would be nice, even a simple (we've been working on it, and its going really well) would mean wonders.

We're begging you devs, Eka, just say something...

I think we are there. Maybe the devs are taking all the good ideas/suggestions and saving them for MNC2 (a la L4D2). :?